Hi all, first time here, any help would be appreciated. Several days ago I was traveling southbound on Allen road and when I reached Eglinton Ave. I stopped at the crosswalk, I waited for two pedestrians to cross and three busses pulling out of the subway station going westbound. I then checked to make sure there were no other pedestrians crossing and no further oncoming traffic and I proceeded to make a right hand turn. On the south side of Eglinton directly across from the Allen exit is a police station where I noticed a police cruiser waiting to drive out of the parking lot onto Eglinton. After making my right turn I reached a red light at Marlee Ave. and found myself right in front of the police cruiser that had just pulled out. As soon as the light turned green and I proceeded to cross Marlee the officer put on his lights and horn and pulled me over. He advised me I had made an improper turn and asked me if I did not see the sign and also how long have I been coming down this way. The next day I drove down the same route to check all the signs and did not see any signs stating no right turn on a red light. The only sign was right at the crosswalk stating "Stop Here on Red Signal". The offense on the ticket states Red light - Proceed before green, contrary to the HTA 144(18), Set fine $150.00, total $180.00. I then went into the police station and asked the officer at the front desk if it is illegal to make a right turn on a red light at which he replied no, as long as you make a full stop. I then asked if it was illegal at that particular intersection stressing that there is no sign clearly prohibiting a right turn on red and again he replied no. When I told him I received a ticket for that the day before, he said "Well that would be worth going to court for". I would be very interested in any comments and to know if anyone else has had this experience, Thank you.

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Allen road and Eglinton Ave. - No right turn on Red Light???

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Zyrynx
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Re: Allen road and Eglinton Ave. - No right turn on Red Light???

Thanks Ticketcombat but I guess what I really wanted to know is the part about "in light of the guidelines set out in R. v. Stinchcombe and subsequent cases", could you explain that to me briefly?

Thanks Ticketcombat but I guess what I really wanted to know is the part about "in light of the guidelines set out in R. v. Stinchcombe and subsequent cases", could you explain that to me briefly?

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ticketcombat
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Re: Allen road and Eglinton Ave. - No right turn on Red Light???

Stinchcombe was the landmark case that ruled the element of surprise had no place in a modern trial and the defendant should see the evidence before trial. It established the Crown's disclosure obligations. Subsequent cases further clarified the Crown's disclosure obligations:. what they must provide, what test they must use, when they must provide it, etc. So a disclosure request "in light of Stinchcombe" means "Hey, you've got to give me the evidence, so let's have it." Subsequent cases means "case law has established what you should provide, when you should provide it and you have to justify if you have something and didn't provide it." So that alone should elicit the evidence required to convict you. In a speeding trial, for example, they must provide evidence that the officer was trained to use the (laser or radar) device and proof that the device was working properly. **************** The second part is, "I know you've got to give me all of the above. Besides that, I also want the following..."

Stinchcombe was the landmark case that ruled the element of surprise had no place in a modern trial and the defendant should see the evidence before trial. It established the Crown's disclosure obligations.

Subsequent cases further clarified the Crown's disclosure obligations:. what they must provide, what test they must use, when they must provide it, etc.

So a disclosure request "in light of Stinchcombe" means "Hey, you've got to give me the evidence, so let's have it." Subsequent cases means "case law has established what you should provide, when you should provide it and you have to justify if you have something and didn't provide it."

So that alone should elicit the evidence required to convict you. In a speeding trial, for example, they must provide evidence that the officer was trained to use the (laser or radar) device and proof that the device was working properly.

****************

The second part is, "I know you've got to give me all of the above. Besides that, I also want the following..."

Last edited by ticketcombat on Sun May 03, 2009 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Zyrynx
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Re: Allen road and Eglinton Ave. - No right turn on Red Light???

Thanks ticketcombat for clearing that up, as always you are a wealth of information! Any suggestions for the specifics I should ask for as it pertains to my situation aside from whats on the sample disclosure form?

Thanks ticketcombat for clearing that up, as always you are a wealth of information! Any suggestions for the specifics I should ask for as it pertains to my situation aside from whats on the sample disclosure form?

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ticketcombat
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Re: Allen road and Eglinton Ave. - No right turn on Red Light???

I would just use the sample disclosure request for the first round. Let's see what they come up with first. Then depending on that, we can devise a strategy. Toronto takes a minimum of 8 weeks to provide disclosure so you've got plenty of time to think about. Just get the first one out there.

I would just use the sample disclosure request for the first round. Let's see what they come up with first. Then depending on that, we can devise a strategy. Toronto takes a minimum of 8 weeks to provide disclosure so you've got plenty of time to think about. Just get the first one out there.

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Zyrynx
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Re: Allen road and Eglinton Ave. - No right turn on Red Light???

Do I wait until I receive my court date or do I send the request now?

Do I wait until I receive my court date or do I send the request now?

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ticketcombat
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Re: Allen road and Eglinton Ave. - No right turn on Red Light???

Now!

Now!

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Zyrynx
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Re: Allen road and Eglinton Ave. - No right turn on Red Light???

Yes but on the disclosure request it says Court Date and Location and I don't have that information yet. Do I wait until they contact me and let me know when and where so I can include that on the disclosure request? Also, what does Diary Date mean?

Yes but on the disclosure request it says Court Date and Location and I don't have that information yet. Do I wait until they contact me and let me know when and where so I can include that on the disclosure request? Also, what does Diary Date mean?

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