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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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14 points can I get suspended?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:59 pm 
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I got 6 points for careless driving twice and 2 points for backing on highway. Hopefully I can reduce those.
See topic5651.html
and topic5652.html

I had a clean record before this and I don't drink and drive and I am generally careful. I've had a license at 16 in Alberta and have a lot of experience. I'm in my 20s now.

On the ontario dermits gov website it says.

9 to 14 points:
Your licence could be suspended. You may have to attend an interview to discuss your driving record. At this meeting, you will need to provide reasons why your licence should not be suspended.

You will get a letter to notify you of the time, date and location of the meeting. If you do not attend, your licence could be suspended.

15+ points:
Your licence will be suspended for 30 days.

When your licence is suspended, you will get a letter from the Ministry of Transportation. It will tell you the date your suspension takes effect and that you need to surrender your licence.

If you do not surrender your licence, you can lose your licence for up to two years.


I am concerned about the ''You may have to attend an interview to discuss your driving record. At this meeting, you will need to provide reasons why your licence should not be suspended.'' part. How does this work, is it likely I get an interview and can I get suspended?

I really really need my car for uni and work in different places. I can't get suspended and I'm already on a tight budget. I even cried with the officer for the backing on highway ticket but still got it.

If I have an interview what questions will be asked. Since I drove since 14 as a learner in Alberta I never had any tickets until this recent burst of tickets.

How will this affect insurance and by how much?
Also I got 'driving without due care and attention' (similar to careless driving) twice in Europe ages ago. Will Canada know about that?

Thanks,
Emily


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Will the fact that I have other tickets affect what they think about dealing with individual tickets?
Do they have a record of all accidents I've had since I've started driving even where I didn't get tickets?


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Forgot to mention I was caught around 2 or 3 times texting but got no points for that ages ago and I think just got a verbal warning for 1. Some of this in other provinces if I'm not mistaken.

This is very stressful I had a nice record for so long and suddenly a plethora of points. Even my sister got a huge and very clearly unfair ticket a week back. Hers is very clearly unfair.


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:48 pm 
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You're kidding right? The question is why haven't you been suspended yet?

You have shown a complete disregard for the safety of other drivers----2 careless driving, a couple texting offences, plus backing on a highway and still only in your 20's! Yet, somehow you STILL think you should be driving.

This must clearly be a joke---no one could possibly be that idiotic and/or foolish! I suspect you're just trolling.


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:39 pm 
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highwaystar wrote:
You're kidding right? The question is why haven't you been suspended yet?

You have shown a complete disregard for the safety of other drivers----2 careless driving, a couple texting offences, plus backing on a highway and still only in your 20's! Yet, somehow you STILL think you should be driving.

This must clearly be a joke---no one could possibly be that idiotic and/or foolish! I suspect you're just trolling.


I'm not joking, I'm in a serious mess. Please don't lecture me about my driving I've had enough of that already. I'm not bad driver I had no points until these recent incidents. I drive a lot and I've never had points before. I know I did stupid things and backing on highway was a bad idea but didn't think I'll get caught so I risked it.

I used to use the phone sometimes when stopped in traffic (and loads of drivers do this) or moving very slowly when I was younger but I've stopped doing that for a long time and haven't got such tickets within the past 3 years.

I really need advice. How should I deal with this and how does the process work for getting so many points in a short period of time but clean record before? I don't believe I should have got careless driving, maybe following too closely. I can't afford to lose my license and I'll make sure not to get any more points.


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:00 am 
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Sometimes you got to know a lost cause when you see it. Even if you got 2 follow too closelies (which I doubt you'd be so lucky to be offered after they find out you ALSO backed up on a highway in another incident after being charged with careless twice!), you'll still be called in for an interview with Ministry.

So, your choices are therefore actually pretty easy:
1) Buy a bus pass now and start making friends early; or
2) Fight all the charges----and hope some guardian angel works a few miracles!

I highly doubt ANY prosecutor is going to give you ANY break as soon as he/she hears of your other charges, so don't get your hopes high in THAT department.

You can't possibly be serious with this saga anyway. There is no way a university-educated woman could possibly think she's got a rats-a$$ chance at keeping her license after those charges and driving history (not to mention have such poor taste in shoes, unless of course, they are part of your uniform at your evening job---ya know, the one that is paying your way through school). :)


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:06 am 
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highwaystar wrote:
Sometimes you got to know a lost cause when you see it. Even if you got 2 follow too closelies (which I doubt you'd be so lucky to be offered after they find out you ALSO backed up on a highway in another incident after being charged with careless twice!), you'll still be called in for an interview with Ministry.

So, your choices are therefore actually pretty easy:
1) Buy a bus pass now and start making friends early; or
2) Fight all the charges----and hope some guardian angel works a few miracles!

I highly doubt ANY prosecutor is going to give you ANY break as soon as he/she hears of your other charges, so don't get your hopes high in THAT department.

You can't possibly be serious with this saga anyway. There is no way a university-educated woman could possibly think she's got a rats-a$$ chance at keeping her license after those charges and driving history (not to mention have such poor taste in shoes, unless of course, they are part of your uniform at your evening job---ya know, the one that is paying your way through school). :)


Its not funny. But I still need 1 more point to be suspended don't I. Yes, I know its not looking good. But I have a clean record before this! I'm fighting the careless driving and probably not fighting backing on highway?
What should I expect for interview?


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:01 am 
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I still believe the prosecutor will plea bargain with you in an effort to avoid a trial. You still have a chance with highwaystar's "guardian angel" option.

Careless Driving could be plea-bargained down to charges that carry 3pts (HTA S.141 (5)) to 4pts (HTA S.158). I'm not aware of any amended/alternate charges for backing on highway, so you'll most likely be stuck with the 3pts on that one.

My understanding is that prosecutors use ICON which shows your previous "convictions", but I don't know if they can also see your pending tickets using ICON. But even if they could, you haven't been proven guilty of the offences... could they really use it against you?

Prosecutor need witnesses to get convictions for all of the three charges you're facing: owner (1st accident), officer (2nd accident), officer (highway backing). There's a chance that some of them may not show up at your trial, which would be in your favour.

File all the tickets for trial and request disclosure for each of them.

Your insurance is guaranteed to go up after the two at-fault claims from both accidents. I don't think the police service would entertain an out-of-pocket deal to get their police vehicle fixed, so that one is an insurance claim. Not sure how you arranged to have the vehicle from the first accident fixed.


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:05 am 
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iFly55 wrote:
I still believe the prosecutor will plea bargain with you in an effort to avoid a trial. You still have a chance with highwaystar's "guardian angel" option.

Careless Driving could be plea-bargained down to charges that carry 3pts (HTA S.141 (5)) to 4pts (HTA S.158). I'm not aware of any amended/alternate charges for backing on highway, so you'll most likely be stuck with the 3pts on that one.

My understanding is that prosecutors use ICON which shows your previous "convictions", but I don't know if they can also see your pending tickets using ICON. But even if they could, you haven't been proven guilty of the offences... could they really use it against you?

Prosecutor need witnesses to get convictions for all of the three charges you're facing: owner (1st accident), officer (2nd accident), officer (highway backing). There's a chance that some of them may not show up at your trial, which would be in your favour.

File all the tickets for trial and request disclosure for each of them.

Your insurance is guaranteed to go up after the two at-fault claims from both accidents. I don't think the police service would entertain an out-of-pocket deal to get their police vehicle fixed, so that one is an insurance claim. Not sure how you arranged to have the vehicle from the first accident fixed.


Thanks a lot, I used insurance for the 1st accident. Am I completely at fault for the first accident? I was overtaken by him before he stopped suddenly.

Any idea about the interview to discuss why you should not be suspended thing?


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:00 am 
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I too got careless driving and I gave a G2 licenese and for 6 points I too can face an Interview.

Best of luck Emily, hope it goes fine. Let me know what happens if you get interview. Really sucks to get this for accidents. Also when driving make sure that your shoes aren't slippery. It isn't illegal to drive in high heels and not dangerous for all high heels. But make sure whatever shoe you where whether heels or flats that they do not slip.

I drive in high heels a lot and I'm short. When driving in them do not put the heel on the pedal and use the heel as a pivot don't keep it in the air then press with the front area of the shoe. This way in fact I find it easier and more comfortable in heels than in flatts. Don't wear really really high ones that are slippery though. Usually wedges are slippery so I'd avoid most of them.

One more thing if you drive in sharper heels and stilettos make sure that you have a proper floormat that will not catch the heel, this is very important and my sister crashed her BF's car (a classic camaro) which such a floormat. Her stiletto got caught in the floormat and she could not brake at all and rear ended a Bus. Car was totaled and she got careless driving too. Her insurance is 2X because of this.

If the floormat is made of wool etc, do not drive in stilettos.

Good luck


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:11 am 
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Let's just get this out of the way. You are a terrible driver. You are probably the worst sober driver i've read about here in some years. That being said, here's what you need to know:

- You inquired about your current insurance situation and how it will impact your currents rates. Don't be surprised if you get a letter in the mail from your insurance telling you they no longer want to insure you. You are a liability and they are losing money by having you insured. You are on the verge of multiple claims, careless driving offenses, possible suspension, and whatever ticket(s) outside of this realm. Be prepared to deal with High Risk Insurance because it's not going to be a matter of just simply moving on to another company. If you're on a tight budget currently, get one of those transit apps for your phone because you're going to need it. Minimum rates are SEVERAL thousands per year.

- Do yourself a favour and get a paralegal. As someone else already pointed on here, you are your own worst enemy. You have a tendency to be too truthful about your driving history. While I can appreciate someone who is as honest as you, the more you talk, the more I wish someone would just throw the book at you already. Plead Not Guilty to everything and go from there. Let a paralegal take over the rest. It's quite possible that you MAY get a break and one of those careless driving tickets can be reduced. Do not go at this alone. You are way over your head in charges.


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:28 am 
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bend wrote:
Let's just get this out of the way. You are a terrible driver. You are probably the worst sober driver i've read about here in some years. That being said, here's what you need to know:

- You inquired about your current insurance situation and how it will impact your currents rates. Don't be surprised if you get a letter in the mail from your insurance telling you they no longer want to insure you. You are a liability and they are losing money by having you insured. You are on the verge of multiple claims, careless driving offenses, possible suspension, and whatever ticket(s) outside of this realm. Be prepared to deal with High Risk Insurance because it's not going to be a matter of just simply moving on to another company. If you're on a tight budget currently, get one of those transit apps for your phone because you're going to need it. Minimum rates are SEVERAL thousands per year.

- Do yourself a favour and get a paralegal. As someone else already pointed on here, you are your own worst enemy. You have a tendency to be too truthful about your driving history. While I can appreciate someone who is as honest as you, the more you talk, the more I wish someone would just throw the book at you already. Plead Not Guilty to everything and go from there. Let a paralegal take over the rest. It's quite possible that you MAY get a break and one of those careless driving tickets can be reduced. Do not go at this alone. You are way over your head in charges.


I wouldn't say she's a terrible driver but definitely needs to be more responsible. And yes you don't have to honestly give the cops all the information and say your foot slipped etc.


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:07 pm 
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MsDeeya wrote:
I wouldn't say she's a terrible driver but definitely needs to be more responsible...


Have you read the driving history she's already shared on this site?

She's in her 20's and has been driving since she was 14 (Alberta's min. age!) and since that time has already had:
* 2 careless driving charges (within the last 2 weeks)---one for rear-ending a car; the other for hitting a police officer's car
* 1 backing up on a highway charge (within the last 2 weeks)
* 2 or 3 convictions for texting while driving; and
*has been in 8 accidents: 5 her fault; 3 not her fault
* 2 of those 'at fault' accidents were within the last 3 years

If that's not a terrible driver, then what is? :shock:


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:59 pm 
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highwaystar wrote:
MsDeeya wrote:
I wouldn't say she's a terrible driver but definitely needs to be more responsible...


Have you read the driving history she's already shared on this site?

She's in her 20's and has been driving since she was 14 (Alberta's min. age!) and since that time has already had:
* 2 careless driving charges (within the last 2 weeks)---one for rear-ending a car; the other for hitting a police officer's car
* 1 backing up on a highway charge (within the last 2 weeks)
* 2 or 3 convictions for texting while driving; and
*has been in 8 accidents: 5 her fault; 3 not her fault
* 2 of those 'at fault' accidents were within the last 3 years

If that's not a terrible driver, then what is? :shock:


It may sound like it makes her terrible but that's not always the case.As in I think she should be able to prevent this in the future. Also be encouraging not discouraging and its kind of mean to bash her driving skills. Obviously she has to be more careful. But who knows she might be an excellent driver if more careful. I know a few people who everyone thought were terrible due to 1 or 2 stupid accidents who actually were good drivers and had good records after that.


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Re: 14 points can I get suspended?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:24 am 
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Being careful IS part of being a good driver. So, lets not play with semantics---if she wasn't careful so many times in the past, then she obviously was a terrible driver. After all, we're talking about multiple incidents in her short driving history!

Most convicted murderers do not go on to kill again----however, that still doesn't absolve them of the stigma of having killed someone in their past. Likewise, Emily may have truly turned a new leaf in her driving going foward, but her driving history will always be something that will speak for itself. Besides, I bet she would also claim she was going to change after every accident and/or charge!!! However, that clearly didn't happen.

So, I think its gotten to a point now where very few people will just accept her empty promises---she must suffer consequences. Hopefully, after learning her lessons, she WILL then truly change. Society also does this so as to hopefully avoid her killing or injuring someone due to her apparent propensity for inattention while driving.


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