Me and a buddy we're having a few beers and talking about diesel trucks as usual. We were talking about when we head up north we usually see MTO Officers on the side of the road doing spot checks mainly on Diesel vehicles. What we came to wonder is, could you actually refuse an MTO spot check? I mean there would be nothing you could do for an outside visual inspection but as far as popping the hood or letting them plug into your OBD plug inside the cab, could you legal refuse it, if the truck isn't registered as a commercial vehicle? As far as we can understand really it would be an illegal search as there would be nothing to warrant then entering the truck. Just really curious what legally you could do, if anything at all. I've searched and can't find any info so thought maybe someone here might know a thing or two.
Me and a buddy we're having a few beers and talking about diesel trucks as usual. We were talking about when we head up north we usually see MTO Officers on the side of the road doing spot checks mainly on Diesel vehicles.
What we came to wonder is, could you actually refuse an MTO spot check? I mean there would be nothing you could do for an outside visual inspection but as far as popping the hood or letting them plug into your OBD plug inside the cab, could you legal refuse it, if the truck isn't registered as a commercial vehicle?
As far as we can understand really it would be an illegal search as there would be nothing to warrant then entering the truck. Just really curious what legally you could do, if anything at all.
I've searched and can't find any info so thought maybe someone here might know a thing or two.
Under section 216.1 of the HTA, (Power of Officer to Examine Commercial Vehicles) it gives the police or "any officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this act" (mto inspectors) the right to pull over cmv's and do the inspections. As well, "the driver, operator or other person in control of the vehicle shall assist in the examination" The fine for not assisting is a total of $390 Although you say your truck is not registered as commercial, ALL pickup trucks are commercial (go to definition section of HTA). It does not matter if the vehicles are diesel or gas. They only plug into truck to see if their speed limiting systems are working, pickup trucks are usually under the required weight rating. Normally once the inspectors determine you are just some guy who owns a pickup truck where the registered gross weight is not over 4,500kg, they send you on your way. Having said that, if you are towing a trailer, they will be checking your weight ratings on the truck and trailer to determine if you need annual inspections or not under section 85 of the HTA.
Under section 216.1 of the HTA, (Power of Officer to Examine Commercial Vehicles) it gives the police or "any officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this act" (mto inspectors) the right to pull over cmv's and do the inspections. As well, "the driver, operator or other person in control of the vehicle shall assist in the examination"
The fine for not assisting is a total of $390
Although you say your truck is not registered as commercial, ALL pickup trucks are commercial (go to definition section of HTA). It does not matter if the vehicles are diesel or gas. They only plug into truck to see if their speed limiting systems are working, pickup trucks are usually under the required weight rating.
Normally once the inspectors determine you are just some guy who owns a pickup truck where the registered gross weight is not over 4,500kg, they send you on your way. Having said that, if you are towing a trailer, they will be checking your weight ratings on the truck and trailer to determine if you need annual inspections or not under section 85 of the HTA.
Ya I know and understand how trailers and GVW work. I was looking at it from more of an emissions stand point that's why I mentioned diesel pick ups, with all the new filters, etc. lots of guys remove them, and we speculated that you really wouldn't have to let them in the cab to check if all emissions systems were ready through the OBD port. But you are right all trucks are considered commercial it's just the personal plate sticker you get, that never really crossed my mind, I guess you would technically have to co-operate?
Ya I know and understand how trailers and GVW work.
I was looking at it from more of an emissions stand point that's why I mentioned diesel pick ups, with all the new filters, etc. lots of guys remove them, and we speculated that you really wouldn't have to let them in the cab to check if all emissions systems were ready through the OBD port.
But you are right all trucks are considered commercial it's just the personal plate sticker you get, that never really crossed my mind, I guess you would technically have to co-operate?
When you open your hood, there is a sticker on the cowling somewhere that talks of emissions. The inspectors will need to read that to do their inspections. The inspectors will do gas or diesel exhaust inspections. Generally, MTO inspectors won't do the emissions inspections, that is more in the world of the Ministry of the Environment inspectors. MOE checks for exhaust out puts as well as modifications. Many pick up trucks have modified exhausts, the most obvious being the large stacks running up behind the cab. MTO inspectors tend only to look for exhaust leaks and such, not the actual exhaust out puts.
When you open your hood, there is a sticker on the cowling somewhere that talks of emissions. The inspectors will need to read that to do their inspections. The inspectors will do gas or diesel exhaust inspections.
Generally, MTO inspectors won't do the emissions inspections, that is more in the world of the Ministry of the Environment inspectors. MOE checks for exhaust out puts as well as modifications. Many pick up trucks have modified exhausts, the most obvious being the large stacks running up behind the cab.
MTO inspectors tend only to look for exhaust leaks and such, not the actual exhaust out puts.
As mentioned, when you own or drive a diesel pick up you shouldn't be surprised about being pulled over occasionally by the Ministry of finance for a fuel dip as well - they are ensuring that people aren't running red dye diesel (Off-road use only) in on road vehicles. The fines for such will blow your socks off so the risk is definitely not worth the potential savings. As for random emissions checks, you can thank all of the idiot diesel pickup owners who think "rolling coal is cool!" for those. They were all but unheard-of up until about 10 years ago.
As mentioned, when you own or drive a diesel pick up you shouldn't be surprised about being pulled over occasionally by the Ministry of finance for a fuel dip as well - they are ensuring that people aren't running red dye diesel (Off-road use only) in on road vehicles. The fines for such will blow your socks off so the risk is definitely not worth the potential savings.
As for random emissions checks, you can thank all of the idiot diesel pickup owners who think "rolling coal is cool!" for those. They were all but unheard-of up until about 10 years ago.
Ya running dyed diesel and driving down the highway is pretty unintelligent in my opinion, there's no benefit other then the cheap price. Emission wise the new trucks have not nearly the potential life span of an old diesel with the new emissions plugging them up. I know exactly why all the emissions started, no doubt there.
Ya running dyed diesel and driving down the highway is pretty unintelligent in my opinion, there's no benefit other then the cheap price.
Emission wise the new trucks have not nearly the potential life span of an old diesel with the new emissions plugging them up. I know exactly why all the emissions started, no doubt there.
As somebody who has spent the last 20 years in the trucking industry, I know why the emissions regulations increased as well, and I don't subscribe to the tinfoil hat theories that it has anything to do with making trucks wear out faster – it has everything to do with people not getting cancer and dying. Anybody who's spent any time in the industry can attest to the mysteriously (or not so, actually) high incidence rate of cancer amongst commercial drivers. Today's trucks run so absolutely exponentially cleaner than the ones of 20 years ago (when I got in the industry) that it's nothing short of amazing. I drive a 2 year old Volvo and I can run my finger inside the stack and it comes out clean - couldn't say that 8+ years ago. I'm perfectly good with that - I don't need it in my lungs, thanks.
As somebody who has spent the last 20 years in the trucking industry, I know why the emissions regulations increased as well, and I don't subscribe to the tinfoil hat theories that it has anything to do with making trucks wear out faster – it has everything to do with people not getting cancer and dying.
Anybody who's spent any time in the industry can attest to the mysteriously (or not so, actually) high incidence rate of cancer amongst commercial drivers.
Today's trucks run so absolutely exponentially cleaner than the ones of 20 years ago (when I got in the industry) that it's nothing short of amazing. I drive a 2 year old Volvo and I can run my finger inside the stack and it comes out clean - couldn't say that 8+ years ago.
I'm perfectly good with that - I don't need it in my lungs, thanks.
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Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
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