Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable

Hi,

I received a speeding ticket today (73km in a 50km zone). The ticket has all the correct information, the only missing information is the SET FINE and the TOTAL PAYABLE, both of these items have nothing written in the boxes.... Any advice on how to proceed with a ticket with this issue?

Ticket Scenario:

I was going down a hill with a car in front of me (2 lane street). The police officer was in front of us at the top of the hill. I did not see any radar in his hand, only him waving for the car in front of me and myself to pull over. I have no idea how he could have gauged how fast I was going, especially being behind the car in front of me with or without a radar.

Any advice is welcome, thanks.

Congratulations, you have a fatal error!

Do NOT respond to the ticket. Put the ticket in a safe place (and maybe scan a copy of it as well for safe keeping).

There are two outcomes when you do not respond to the ticket:

(1) A JP will look over the ticket and if they notice the error, they will quash it and charge will be dropped and you will not hear anything more about it.

(2) A JP will look over the ticket and they will not notice the error, and you will be found guilty and convicted of the charge.

If #2 happens, then you immediately file an appeal saying the JP made an error (you will have to pay the fine to file the appeal). You will be given a trial date for the appeal. At the trial, when called up, you simply produce the original ticket you have with no set fine and no total payable and you tell the Judge that the JP made an error and they should have quashed the ticket because there was a fatal error on it. The charge will be overturned, the conviction removed and your money for the original fine reimbursed.

Bud416 wrote:

Hi,

I received a speeding ticket today (73km in a 50km zone). The ticket has all the correct information, the only missing information is the SET FINE and the TOTAL PAYABLE, both of these items have nothing written in the boxes.... Any advice on how to proceed with a ticket with this issue?

It is possible that the officer will notice their error and not file the ticket. Call the court in a week and speak to a court clerk. Provide them with the ticket number and ask if the ticket has been filed. If the matter has not been filed, call them back in another week and a half. Court contact information by city can be found here: https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on. ... esses/poa/

If the matter has been filed, it will be important to know what information has been filed with the court by the Officer in determining how to respond.

For most matters, an Officer can re-serve a defendant within 6 months of the offence date. Although for simple speeding matters this would be very uncommon.

HUGELY uncommon. You would have had to do something to make yourself very memorable indeed. OTD is bang on that the officer may well have shredded the ticket already which does leave you in the lurch a wee bit but is better than having the ticket correct !

This sounds like the best way to handle this. Although if the officer notices his mistake and files the ticket with a set fine, what would be the next steps? Would I then take jsherk's advice and just not respond to the ticket?

Assuming nothing gets filed, I would be off the hook completely?

OTD Legal wrote:

Bud416 wrote:

Hi,

I received a speeding ticket today (73km in a 50km zone). The ticket has all the correct information, the only missing information is the SET FINE and the TOTAL PAYABLE, both of these items have nothing written in the boxes.... Any advice on how to proceed with a ticket with this issue?

It is possible that the officer will notice their error and not file the ticket. Call the court in a week and speak to a court clerk. Provide them with the ticket number and ask if the ticket has been filed. If the matter has not been filed, call them back in another week and a half. Court contact information by city can be found here: https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on. ... esses/poa/

If the matter has been filed, it will be important to know what information has been filed with the court by the Officer in determining how to respond.

For most matters, an Officer can re-serve a defendant within 6 months of the offence date. Although for simple speeding matters this would be very uncommon.

Yes, if nothing gets filed then you are off the hook. If it gets filed and JP notices then mistake then you are also off the hook.

If it gets filed and the JP does not notice the mistake (or the officer corrects before filing it) then you still need to NOT respond and do an APPEAL when you get notice of the conviction.

They say every time an officer writes a ticket with a fatal flaw an angel earns his wings

Oh it's a "wonderful life"

jsherk wrote:

Congratulations, you have a fatal error!

jsherk wrote:

Yes, if nothing gets filed then you are off the hook. If it gets filed and JP notices then mistake then you are also off the hook.

If it gets filed and the JP does not notice the mistake (or the officer corrects before filing it) then you still need to NOT respond and do an APPEAL when you get notice of the conviction.

It will depend on what information the Officer has filed with the court. If he has filed his copy of the ticket, which is the important copy, with the missing information completed, then not appearing for a trial date or allowing the matter to go to a non-response hearing will result in a conviction.

Other than calling the court to see if the ticket has been filed, how would I know if the officer has filled in the missing information?

This is why not responding to the ticket is concerning. If he files the ticket, is there a way to find out if he inserted the fine amount?

Would I then need to respond to the ticket with Option 3 for the Trial Option?

Thanks

OTD Legal wrote:

jsherk wrote:

Yes, if nothing gets filed then you are off the hook. If it gets filed and JP notices then mistake then you are also off the hook.

If it gets filed and the JP does not notice the mistake (or the officer corrects before filing it) then you still need to NOT respond and do an APPEAL when you get notice of the conviction.

It will depend on what information the Officer has filed with the court. If he has filed his copy of the ticket, which is the important copy, with the missing information completed, then not appearing for a trial date or allowing the matter to go to a non-response hearing will result in a conviction.

You can call the clerk at the provincial offences office and ask them what date the ticket was filed on. If they say it wasn't filed, then that is good news. If they say it was filed, you can go ask to see the original that was filed and see if the information was filled in or not.

But officer is NOT allowed to change the ticket after he gives it to you. So you do NOT want to respond, even if the officer filled in the missing information. You will definitely be found guilty if he fills in the missing information, but then you immediately file an APPEAL (not a re-opening) and show up to appeal trial with your copy of the ticket that shows the information was missing.

Does that have to be done in person if it was filed and I want to see what the officer changed on the ticket or can i just ask over the phone? What a waste of time if he filed the ticket with the missing information... Is there not a system in place that would not allow him to file the ticket with missing pertinent information?

I'm a little confused on when I would file an appeal, would I get a letter in the mail stating I was found guilty and I would file an appeal based on the ruling and the fatal error on my ticket?

Appreciate the advice

jsherk wrote:

You can call the clerk at the provincial offences office and ask them what date the ticket was filed on. If they say it wasn't filed, then that is good news. If they say it was filed, you can go ask to see the original that was filed and see if the information was filled in or not.

But officer is NOT allowed to change the ticket after he gives it to you. So you do NOT want to respond, even if the officer filled in the missing information. You will definitely be found guilty if he fills in the missing information, but then you immediately file an APPEAL (not a re-opening) and show up to appeal trial with your copy of the ticket that shows the information was missing.

The officer probably should not file it, but could filing a whole stack of tickets and not notice the error.

You can probably ask on the phone what the set fine and total payable says. If they give you a number then you know it was filled in. Once you are convicted you should receive a notice, and that is when you file the appeal.

Thanks jsherk.

Does the Ontario highway traffic act state anywhere online that a missing fine on a ticket is indeed a fatal error and would be a successful reason to appeal a conviction?

Bud416 wrote:

Thanks jsherk.

Does the Ontario highway traffic act state anywhere online that a missing fine on a ticket is indeed a fatal error and would be a successful reason to appeal a conviction?

You won't find the definition of a fatal error in the act it self, instead it is contained in an Ontario Court of Appeal ruling called City of London vs. Young. Here is a link to it http://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2 ... CA0429.htm

Also worth reading is the Provincial Offences Act. This is the enabling legislation that allows police officers and other enforcement agencies to issue tickets. This doesn't just apply to traffic tickets but to all offences for which a ticket might be issued. Here is a link to the Act https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p33

The court ruling in this case is talking about the part of the Provincial Offences Act that allows courts to find a person guilty when they don't respond to their ticket. The court ruled that in order to find someone guilty by default the ticket must be correct and regular on it's face. The court decided that among other things having an incorrect set fine on the ticket meant that it was not correct and regular on its face and thus someone could not be found guilty by default if the set fine on the ticket was not correct.

Perfect, thank you very much.

I will call the provincial offence offices tomorrow to check on the ticket

daggx wrote:

Bud416 wrote:

Thanks jsherk.

Does the Ontario highway traffic act state anywhere online that a missing fine on a ticket is indeed a fatal error and would be a successful reason to appeal a conviction?

You won't find the definition of a fatal error in the act it self, instead it is contained in an Ontario Court of Appeal ruling called City of London vs. Young. Here is a link to it http://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2 ... CA0429.htm

Also worth reading is the Provincial Offences Act. This is the enabling legislation that allows police officers and other enforcement agencies to issue tickets. This doesn't just apply to traffic tickets but to all offences for which a ticket might be issued. Here is a link to the Act https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p33

The court ruling in this case is talking about the part of the Provincial Offences Act that allows courts to find a person guilty when they don't respond to their ticket. The court ruled that in order to find someone guilty by default the ticket must be correct and regular on it's face. The court decided that among other things having an incorrect set fine on the ticket meant that it was not correct and regular on its face and thus someone could not be found guilty by default if the set fine on the ticket was not correct.

I spoke with a court clerk today and he says the ticket has been filed, but no set fine or total payable amount was inserted.

His recommendation was to respond to the ticket with Option 2 or Option 3 and once the process begins, the JP will recognize the mistake and quash the ticket.

He did not recommend not responding to the ticket.

Remember who the clerk works for (not you)!

If you respond with option 2 (early resolution) or option 3 trial, the prosecutor does not have to drop the charge and then you end up at a trial and then they can amend the ticket and add the set fine and total payable back in. Its only a fatal error if you do not go to trial. If you go to trial, then they are allowed to fix any fatal errors.

If it was me, I would NOT respond to the ticket, and would wait to deal with it at an appeal if the JP does not quash it (which they should if there is no set fine).

I did not realize that if I go to trial they are allowed to fix the fatal error... I thought If I select option 3, I would meet with the JP prior to a trial and they would see the error and quash the ticket right there and then.

You're essentially saying if I respond to this ticket, my right to appeal the outcome due to a fatal error is no longer possible as the JP will amend the ticket with the correct fine information (why would the JP choose not to amend the ticket unless he/she is feeling extra nice).

Bud416 wrote:

You're essentially saying if I respond to this ticket, my right to appeal the outcome due to a fatal error is no longer possible as the JP will amend the ticket with the correct fine information (why would the JP choose not to amend the ticket unless he/she is feeling extra nice).

There is a provision in one of the Acts (Courts of Justice or Provincial Offences) that says a Justice of the Peace can ONLY AMEND a ticket at TRIAL. And it is usually done at the request of the Prosecutor. The trial must actually start in order for them to amend the ticket. If you choose option 3 for a trial, but don't show up, then the trial will not start and the JP can NOT amend it. You have to choose an option for trial and then show up for the trial and the trial must actually start (they ask you how you plead Guilty or Not Guilty) in order for them to be able to fix the ticket. If you show up and the trial starts and they amend the ticket then yes you are losing your right to appeal.

If you ask for a trial but do not show up, or you just do not respond to the ticket at all, the ticket will go before a JP for review and since you are not there in either of these cases, there is no trial and they can not amend it. They can only look at the ticket as-is and decide that it is ok and you should be convicted, or they decide that there is problem with it and it should be dropped. If they decide it is ok and convict you (which they shouldn't because the set fine is missing, but they could just not be paying attention and miss that error), this is when you can appeal.

Thanks for the explanation.

Why does the prosecutor not have the right to quash the ticket if I were to choose option 2 and meet with him?

Technically no trial has started but I'm trying to avoid wasting anyone's time taking a case with a fatal error to trial. If i meet with the prosecutor prior to trial to let him know that I will not be showing up for a trial due to the fatal error, wouldn't he quash the ticket right there and then to avoid wasting the courts time going to trial for a ticket that has a fatal error?

I thought the prosecutor's goal was to limit the amount of cases going to trial.

Some prosecutors are great and will always do the right thing. Other prosecutors will do just about anything to get the conviction.

So yes the prosecutor SHOULD agree to have the charge withdrawn when you show them the error, but they might not. And if you tell the prosecuto about the problem up front, they could also withdraw the charge but then ask the officer to re-issue a new ticket with the correct information on it. The officer has 6 months to give you a new ticket.

If you just don't respond and don't tell them about the problem, then the JP should quash it (or you appeal if he doesn't) and you can not be re-charged for the same charge again and the officer can not re-issue a new ticket.

Bud416 wrote:

Thanks for the explanation.

Why does the prosecutor not have the right to quash the ticket if I were to choose option 2 and meet with him?

Technically no trial has started but I'm trying to avoid wasting anyone's time taking a case with a fatal error to trial. If i meet with the prosecutor prior to trial to let him know that I will not be showing up for a trial due to the fatal error, wouldn't he quash the ticket right there and then to avoid wasting the courts time going to trial for a ticket that has a fatal error?

Be careful talking to the prosecutor. Remember that if your ticket was issued less then 6 months ago the prosecutor has the option of withdrawing the ticket with the error on it and then issuing you with a new, error free, summons. If that happens you lose your advantage and will be forced into a regular trial. So at the very least don't tell them what is going on until the 6 months statute of limitations has expired so they can't recharge you. Even then it is probably best not to give away your strategy to the opposition, the less they know about what you are doing the better it is for you. The best thing to do at this point is to just sit back and let the system run it's course.

Bud416 wrote:

I thought the prosecutor's goal was to limit the amount of cases going to trial.

The prosecutor's goal is to get as many people as they can to plead guilty. Dropping charges outright looks bad on their record, so they don't like to do it unless they are really forced to.

What is the expected timeline on receiving the letter in the mail (either stating it was quashed or stating I am guilty and have the option to appeal?)

Bud416 wrote:

What is the expected timeline on receiving the letter in the mail (either stating it was quashed or stating I am guilty and have the option to appeal?)

If the ticket is quashed, you will not get a letter in the mail. You will need to follow up with the court after the non-response review of your ticket. You would only get a notice of conviction if the Justice did not notice the error and convicted.

I went through this with a red light ticket I got back in 2011 that had an incorrect set fine. I got the ticket on May 18th but they didn't send me a letter saying I had been convicted until July 29th, so it can take some time. Also, as OTD pointed out, you will only get a letter if you are convicted. If they quash the ticket you won't hear from them. If it were me I would wait about a month and then give them a call to see what the status of your ticket is. If they say it has been quashed then you have won and don't need to take any further action. If they say it is still pending then thank them for the info and hang up, no need to elaborate on your legal strategy. I would then give it another couple of weeks and call again.

Okay - so in jsherks post a few above this, he states that a fatal error can only be corrected at trial. I was at court the other day to set a date. There was a lady in front of me that was there to set a date as well for a cell phone / texting charge. During the discussions between her and the JP, the JP noted the HTA reference was incorrect and asked the prosecutor to amend the ticket. The JP then asked the lady if this was acceptable to her - and her, not knowing any better, agreed to it.

Is this an error in procedure and would the lady have any recourse available to her?

Why were you at court to set a date?

What happened?

Was your ticket a SUMMONS or a NOTICE OF OFFENCE?

A wrong section number is not fatal and is amendable...nothing wrong with that...You don't even need to put a section number on a ticket

@riggyzomba - Just realized you are not the original author of this thread! She agreed to the change so there is probably nothing she can do now. But it sounds like it was a SUMMONS if you were there to set a date, so I think you MUST show up to those dates. Now when setting a date a summons hearing, this is not a trial as far as I am aware, so not sure if you can actually amend a summons before the trial starts or not, so maybe more to this.

I was there to set a date for the insecure load ticket that I have posted in another thread. The reason we had to set a date was due to the per diem prosecutor, during my initial trial date, requesting more substantiating documentation that I was given permission to appear on behalf of the individual that received the ticket. We now have another trial date set for February 9th. The lady with the cell phone charge was also present at my first trial date and she too was postponed at that time as she had not yet asked / received disclosure. She was the one I made reference to in the other post as well.

The reason we could not set a date at that time was due to the fact that the prosecutor did not have the officers' schedule for the new year yet. (It is the same officer in both of our cases).

I think you could hear my exasperation when the JP asked to amend her ticket - she asked me after if what she did was a bad thing....