Set fine for Jay-walking
So I read on this site that the set fine for jay-walking is $35 in ontario: http://fightyourtickets.ca/jaywalking-tickets/
I just got my ticket so I haven't done anything with it, though I'm not completely sure if this counts as a fatal error, because my ticket says the set fine is $60. Is this a fatal error? could i fight it or no? what should i do?
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
What exactly are you charged with? Act and section?
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
umm.the highway traffic act 144 (22) failure to use crosswalk?
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
Depends on your jurisdiction and your JP, I think. Some are anal, wanting everything to be perfect or they'll quash it. But, if you fight it and it goes to a trail, the crown can ask for an amendment to the certificate. This is often allowed if the error is not something that has prejudiced your ability to make a defence to the charge.
It would probably be a good question to ask the crown at a first attendance meeting if you're that concerned about it.
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
Ahhh...so you're saying that I would have to plea not guilty to present this to the crown. Just wondering though, the set fine is an amount set by the city right? so if the set fine is 35, hes not allowed to change it to 60 right?
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
No, the set fine is set by the Court for the province. But the set fine is only applicable if you choose to plead guilty. If you take it to a trail there is no set fine, at that point the maximum of $500 as set by the Provincial Offences Act applies, unless another amount is specified in the particular section. When a conviction is obtained the prosecutor usually asks for an amount commensurate with what would have been the set fine if you plead guilty.
This is why I don't think an incorrect amount on the set fine prejudices your ability to make a defence.
In order to address the ticket though, you would have to plead not guilty and speak with the prosecutor at the first appearance date, or with the JP at trial. Alternatively you could plead guilty and make submissions to the JP as to sentencing (if you feel that you are guilty of the offence) and bring the issue up with him (or her) at the time.
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
Oh okay, I think I get what your saying... So basically I should just plead guilty, and mention the the judge that the set fine looks wrong, and whatever happens happens right, because it definitely doesn't look big enough to go to court for.
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
Hold up.
If the set fine is incorrect, the procedure to get the ticket quashed is actually to not show up for trial at all. The Ontario Court of Appeal made this clear with the London v. Young ruling. If you show up for trial, the JP can amend the certificate and correct the mistake. If you do not, the JP must examine the ticket to ensure it is "complete and regular" on its face. If it is not, the JP must quash it. (Many screw up and enter a conviction, but invariably it will be overturned on appeal.)
Although you were ticketed for fail to use crosswalk, you should be aware of this particular discussion as it applies in your case:
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
Good point! The only issue is that if he doesn't show up and they go for a 9.1 conviction and the JP doesn't notice it then he gets the conviction and has to appeal.
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
Ahhhhh man. So basically if I dont go for a conviction I MIGHT not have to pay at all, yet I could get fined even more. But if I do, I might end up paying even more....oh man these laws are confusing.
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
Simon Borys wrote:
The only issue is that if he doesn't show up and they go for a 9.1 conviction and the JP doesn't notice it then he gets the conviction and has to appeal.
Therein lies the problem... JPs often just rubber-stamp the PON.
meloyelo wrote:
oh man these laws are confusing.
We haven't even scratched the surface yet! It gets a lot worse...
Anyway, if you do not respond to this ticket, one of two things will happen. Either the JP will quash it, or he'll enter a conviction. Once that conviction is entered, they cannot amend the ticket... so if you appeal on the grounds that the ticket should have been quashed in the first place due to the error, you'd win. Yeah, complicated, isn't it? The system should basically quash any and all tickets with fatal errors on them the second they're filed, but that doesn't happen, unfortunately. No one said this made any sense.
Ultimately, the decision as to how hard you want to fight this is up to you...
Re: Set fine for Jay-walking
Oh okay, well thanks a lot for you're help guys. I'm probably just going to Plea guilty-submissions as to penalty. I don't think its worth the risk going to court for this ticket..so I'm just going to plea guilty, and mention to the judge that the set fine was wrong, see how that works, if not he/she will probably lower the fine anyways, and I guess I will just have to pay that.
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