Hello, I was recently pulled over by an OPP police officer on my way home from Gananoque to Kingston when I was about to enter the 401. He asked me if I had anything to drink and I told him I didnt. After that things went for the worse. He then told me to open my car door, which surprised me because he had absolutely no reason to search my vehicle since I wasn't suspected of committing any crime. I decided to do so because he was visibly angry and intimidating and did not want to have an altercation with him. When I opened the door he saw my brother and father sitting on the back seats without their seatbelts and proceeded to confiscate their drivers license and write them a ticket. I told him later on that I knew he had violated my rights to unreasonable search and seizure under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. From what I understand, a police officer cannot stop you and search your vehicle unless he has reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime, which he certainly did not. I also am aware that you cannot stop a motorist to check if they are wearing their seatbelt because that is a violation of the purpose of the Highway Traffic Act. He also misrepresented the reason for stopping me by first claiming it was for a DUI check-up and then proceeding to search my car as if I was a criminal without reasonable cause to do so. In the end, he wrote a ticket under the Highway Traffic Act for driving without a seatbelt even though he had no evidence since he never caught us in the act and ordered us against our will to open the car door without reasonable cause. My brother and father had their seatbelts off AFTER he stopped the car and told them to open the door so he never could prove that they were without their seatbelts while driving. I did not want to comply with his unlawful order but felt that it could have escalated into something worse. I just wanted to know if anyone could tell me whether I could potentially have a case to defend my family in court and waive the penalty fee. I could use some advice on this.
Hello,
I was recently pulled over by an OPP police officer on my way home from Gananoque to Kingston when I was about to enter the 401. He asked me if I had anything to drink and I told him I didnt. After that things went for the worse. He then told me to open my car door, which surprised me because he had absolutely no reason to search my vehicle since I wasn't suspected of committing any crime. I decided to do so because he was visibly angry and intimidating and did not want to have an altercation with him. When I opened the door he saw my brother and father sitting on the back seats without their seatbelts and proceeded to confiscate their drivers license and write them a ticket. I told him later on that I knew he had violated my rights to unreasonable search and seizure under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. From what I understand, a police officer cannot stop you and search your vehicle unless he has reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime, which he certainly did not. I also am aware that you cannot stop a motorist to check if they are wearing their seatbelt because that is a violation of the purpose of the Highway Traffic Act. He also misrepresented the reason for stopping me by first claiming it was for a DUI check-up and then proceeding to search my car as if I was a criminal without reasonable cause to do so. In the end, he wrote a ticket under the Highway Traffic Act for driving without a seatbelt even though he had no evidence since he never caught us in the act and ordered us against our will to open the car door without reasonable cause. My brother and father had their seatbelts off AFTER he stopped the car and told them to open the door so he never could prove that they were without their seatbelts while driving. I did not want to comply with his unlawful order but felt that it could have escalated into something worse. I just wanted to know if anyone could tell me whether I could potentially have a case to defend my family in court and waive the penalty fee. I could use some advice on this.
Your understanding of police authority is fundamentally wrong. If you are stopped at a RIDE check (which is the way it sounds), the police are following the accepted brief detention and violation of your Charter rights. If the same police observe an offence being committed as a result of that interaction you seem to believe they should be obligated to ignore it. Having someone open their car door is acceptable to facilitate an interaction with them. It happens all the time at ride checks because windows wont lower. I would suggest that your passengers contact legal representation if they choose to fight the charges.
Your understanding of police authority is fundamentally wrong. If you are stopped at a RIDE check (which is the way it sounds), the police are following the accepted brief detention and violation of your Charter rights. If the same police observe an offence being committed as a result of that interaction you seem to believe they should be obligated to ignore it.
Having someone open their car door is acceptable to facilitate an interaction with them. It happens all the time at ride checks because windows wont lower.
I would suggest that your passengers contact legal representation if they choose to fight the charges.
The windows were tinted in the back, there is no way he could have seen my father and brother without their seatbelts on or even partially. And if he's claiming its for the RIDE program than why do my passangers in the vehicle have to be involved? Isn't this program supposed to be about protecting citizens from drunk driving? Its funny how he claims its for DUI and then decides to order me to open my car door and writes tickets for seatbelts. Im certain this officer was overstepping the boundaries of what a DUI stop is all about otherwise he would have left after I told him I didn't have anything to drink.
The windows were tinted in the back, there is no way he could have seen my father and brother without their seatbelts on or even partially. And if he's claiming its for the RIDE program than why do my passangers in the vehicle have to be involved? Isn't this program supposed to be about protecting citizens from drunk driving? Its funny how he claims its for DUI and then decides to order me to open my car door and writes tickets for seatbelts. Im certain this officer was overstepping the boundaries of what a DUI stop is all about otherwise he would have left after I told him I didn't have anything to drink.
Probably a good idea to request disclosure to see what the officers evidence is and stated reason(s) for pulling you over. Personally I think the simplest defence would be to argue that the officers observations were made at a time when your vehicle was parked. There would need to be some evidence supporting your passengers being unbelted at a time when the vehicle was in motion or operation. A Charter defence is a bit more of an arduous undertaking, and Im not sure if you have enough for one. Random stops are allowed under the Highway Traffic Act, something the Supreme Court has upheld (barely). While random stops may be a charter violation, its considered brief and minor and allowed under section 1 of the Charter which allows for "reasonable limits" to any rights in a free and democratic society. So the question is does asking someone step out of the vehicle overstep these limits? That Im not sure of. Id think simply asking someone to step out of their vehicle does not necessarily qualify as a search in itself. There are valid reasons in my opinion why an officer could do so without triggering a charter violation. Again though Id stress that Charter arguments are not straightforward and legal representation might be a good idea if thats how you (or your passengers) want to proceed. Thats why Id try and proceed on what I think would be a simpler defence strategy (no evidence to support the offence) versus a Charter argument.
Probably a good idea to request disclosure to see what the officers evidence is and stated reason(s) for pulling you over.
Personally I think the simplest defence would be to argue that the officers observations were made at a time when your vehicle was parked. There would need to be some evidence supporting your passengers being unbelted at a time when the vehicle was in motion or operation.
A Charter defence is a bit more of an arduous undertaking, and Im not sure if you have enough for one. Random stops are allowed under the Highway Traffic Act, something the Supreme Court has upheld (barely). While random stops may be a charter violation, its considered brief and minor and allowed under section 1 of the Charter which allows for "reasonable limits" to any rights in a free and democratic society.
So the question is does asking someone step out of the vehicle overstep these limits? That Im not sure of. Id think simply asking someone to step out of their vehicle does not necessarily qualify as a search in itself. There are valid reasons in my opinion why an officer could do so without triggering a charter violation.
Again though Id stress that Charter arguments are not straightforward and legal representation might be a good idea if thats how you (or your passengers) want to proceed. Thats why Id try and proceed on what I think would be a simpler defence strategy (no evidence to support the offence) versus a Charter argument.
Actually you have no standing to argue that your rights were violated on your friend's tickets. That's not the way it works. Now they can argue a lot of the same issues, but it has to be from their perspective. As has been said, the stop is probably not the problem here, because of the general HTA authority & supporting case law which approves this as a limited and acceptable detention. The issue seems to be a s. 8 one - that the officer conducted a warrantless (visual) search of the vehicle after telling you to open the door. This could be distinguished from looking through open or clear windows if he couldn't see in the back without opening the door. It could also be distinguished from the situation of needing to open the door to conduct the sobriety check because the windows won't open. That being said there are cases I am aware of that go the other way and say that the opening of the door is not a s. 8 breach. And then you have to consider what remedy you would be asking for under 24(2). What evidence is it that you want excluded? This is why, as people have said, Charter arguments are not simple.
Actually you have no standing to argue that your rights were violated on your friend's tickets. That's not the way it works. Now they can argue a lot of the same issues, but it has to be from their perspective.
As has been said, the stop is probably not the problem here, because of the general HTA authority & supporting case law which approves this as a limited and acceptable detention.
The issue seems to be a s. 8 one - that the officer conducted a warrantless (visual) search of the vehicle after telling you to open the door. This could be distinguished from looking through open or clear windows if he couldn't see in the back without opening the door. It could also be distinguished from the situation of needing to open the door to conduct the sobriety check because the windows won't open.
That being said there are cases I am aware of that go the other way and say that the opening of the door is not a s. 8 breach.
And then you have to consider what remedy you would be asking for under 24(2). What evidence is it that you want excluded?
This is why, as people have said, Charter arguments are not simple.
Hi, I am new to the forum. I have been trying to get information off of here and www.ticketcombat.com for my case.
I was given a ticket for going 122km/h in a posted 100km/h zone at Hwy 401 east at Thickson Rd in Whitby ON on April 10th, 2009.
I find this absolutely absurd, since I was in the left most lane of the 401 approximately(within 5km/h) following the speed of traffic in my lane. The guy in…
Hey this is my first ticket so as much information that people can provide will be appreciated. I was making the drive home going around 90kph(in a 80) behind what I knew was an undercover police car. The cop abruptly pulled to the side and pulled back in behind me to pull me over. Now I reduced my speed to below 80 when the cop pulled to the side but he claimed he had me clocked at 109kph and…
On Wednesday I attended court at 1530 Markham Road, courtroom E2, in order to fight my speeding ticket. My original plan was to plead not guilty, and to watch all the people who went before me, the process, the Prosecutor and the Justice Of The Peace so I could strategize and form the best plan for my defence at trial. I had done some research online and sort of knew I wanted to defend myself,…
About 5 months ago I was driving along a two-way road approaching an intersection. The road had a left/ straight turning lane and a right turning lane. There was an 18 wheel gravel truck occupying the left lane at a red light. I pulled behind the truck intending to drive straight. After not moving for about 1 second, I check my rear view mirror, signaled and changed lanes to the right…
I am currently working for an auto parts delivery company and they contracted me to work as a courier.
As I left my base to make my first delivery which was less than 300 meters away from the shop, I had my seat belt off because i was under the impression, according to Section 106 Exception #6 subsection (c) of the highway traffic act, that I would be exempted from the seat belt law. The rule…
Got a ticket yesterday for "Insecure Load" contrary to HTA Sec 111(2). $160. I was pulling a utility trailer in which I had loaded a steel and wood cabinet. Total length of cabinet is 57.5". 14.75" (1/4 of the cabinet) was sticking out over the side of the trailer at about a 45 degree angle, the rest (3/4) was inside the trailer. The trailer has sides 24" high. I didn't have a tie-down or bungee…
I've been researching for months for defence strategy and basic trial information regarding my speeding ticket. However, the information is so conflicting that I have no confidence whatsoever that I know what I'm doing.
I didn't get this info from a friend of a friend, it came from this website, court officials, case laws, and a consultation with a traffic ticket fighting company.
So I was driving east bound pulling an empty tandem trailer on a gravel highway. Eventually I caught up to a truck pulling a fifth wheel. The speed limit was 70km/h and I don't quite remember but I'm almost 100% that the guy in front of me was driving at 60km/h. After being behind him for a few kilometers and getting two cracks in my windshield from rocks off his tires, I decided to pass him. I…
I have been driving for over 10 years without any tickets and accidents what so ever. Unfortunately my luck ran out this past Friday; when the officer pulled me over doing 80 in a 50 zone in Mississauga, Ontario. Officer was very friendly and polite not to mention nice enough to reduce the charge to 15KM.
On the speeding ticket it now says doing 65km in a 50 zone. Never having a speeding…
hi everyone im just wondering if its right for a cop to have my car impounded and give me a traffic ticket for improper plates when my car didnt leave my property, yes i knew the plates werent to my car but on private property it dont matter aslong as it dosent go onto public property. am i right with this that i shouldnt have gotten the ticket or my car impounded?????????????
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
Hi guys, I got pulled over last night and was ticketed with HTA 172, I was going 157 on a 100 on 400N and was wondering what I should do. I was using cruise control but the guy in the lane to my left was driving into my lane irresponsibly to I sped up to get ahead of him and just my luck that's when an OPP cruiser pulled up behind me flashing his lights. My court date is at the end of the month…
If anyone can answer this I would greatly appreciate it.
Friday morning I checked my mail and received a letter from the MTO stating that under section 47(1) of the HTA the Registrar of Motor Vehicles has decided to suspend my driving privilege for medical reasons. This was due to a report submitted by a physician in compliance with section 203 of the HTA. Enclosed with that letter were forms to…
Ok so looking for some advice in regards to my wife's speeding ticket 120k in 100 (I was in vehicle so witnessed most - but was resting at initial clock.)
whats the likelihood of positive outcome of an 11b (or an officer no show, which I suspect doesn't really happen as much as web/Ads would have you believe) of 8months.
Wife REALLY doesn't want to go, and of course I'm the one doing all of the…
I know I shouldn't have driving but I slept at my buddies' place and I thought I was ok to drive in the morning.. needless to say I still drove and got pulled over.
Background details:
I was pulled over in the morning last week, apparently going 120 km/hr on 90km Northbound DVP. Two cop cars tailed me for a bit, saw them in my rearview mirror while on the left lane, slowed down to…
I got two tickets on Feb 20 2011. One for red light, and the other for Stop sign. I knew I had a good chance at getting off on the red light, because the officer couldn't actually see the light facing me. He was at an opposite angle, further up the street.
I set a court date for both tickets. On April 22 I moved to a new place. I went to the Service Ontario location and renewed my licence…
Winnipeg's police officers have been told to issue more traffic tickets, in part to increase revenue.
And a union representing cops says the move could hurt their efforts to curb the city's gang violence.
Police Chief Keith McCaskill said last night he -- and he alone, without input from Mayor Sam Katz -- recently made the call to patrolling officers and to those in specialized units to step up…
I'm wondering if anyone could enlighten me on what to do about the following scenario:
I was pulled over by a YRP constable because I only had one front head light working. Upon being pulled over, I also realized my insurance card was expired by one month and my car permit was not on me at all. (It doesn't matter now but my valid insurance card was sitting at home in an envelope…
I have a wicked prosecutor in my area, he is an evil man and will lie and cheat, whatever is necessary for him to win. I got a yellow light infraction ticket and the cop was a no show. I requested the charge dismissed and it went like this:
Me: I request the charge be dismissed because the officer is not here
Prosecutor: No, we are going to adjourn the trial so the officer can attend
Accident happened at a regular intersection with turning lanes and lights. I was turning left. The light turned yellow, and the car approaching sped up to make the light. I thought he was stopping, so i made the turn. At the time of the collision the light was red.
I understand that it is my fault. I'm just wondering what my best course of action is.
alright well to get started ive developed a passion for longboarding
for those of you who dont already know a longboard is a big skateboard too heavy for tricks and stuff but boy can they ever go fast
my hobbies include going up the escarpment here in hamilton and stoney creek and riding down the roads leading to the lower part of the city. just wondering here. what would happen if i was going down…
My court date is nearing at old city hall at appeals court.
iwhats going to happen and what do i do?
do I present my certificate of offence and point out to the judge the fine was incorrect, I did not appear and am now appealing on the grounds the Justice of the peace erred and failed to quash the ticket on the basis of the certificate not being properly examined and is not complete and regular on…