I was traveling north on Hwy 28 with my cruise set at 85. I slowly caught up to a car that was traveling between 79-82. I followed him for around 3 kilometers and his speed fluctuated between 79-82. He pulled to the right as if to let me pass so I did in a safe manner, excelerating to 102 k as I passed, signaled to pull back in and reset my cruise to 85. The car then proceeded to speed up and to my surprise turn on his lights. Yep, I just passed a unmarked police car. :roll: :shock: :cry: I was very polite to the officer as he gave me the ticket but I said to him that you pulled to the right to allow me to pass. He said he didn't and told me speeders are a dime a dozen. Is this something I could take to court and fight? Should I just suck it up and pay the ticket? I'm not a aggresive driver and I feel the officer kind of baited me to pass him by pulling to the right.
Topic
What's the proper procedure to pass a car on a 2 lane road?
Fine, I'll start it again..... :D 4 mins for you and your area. I can take 80 KMH roads all the way to and from work, 86 KM's by the way. Lets see, 20 KMH times 86 KM=18 minute difference! yoink. It's all relative to the circumstances, which officers don't ask about when pulling someone over. The funny thing about the whole speeding charge is that it is about instantainious speed, not the overall general attitude of the driver. Just because someone speeds up to pass does not mean they should be handed a tiresome ticket. Speed limits in Ontario have been set by non-traffic experts. Traffic engineers say let people drive and set the limit to the 85th percentile. Does the government listen, um no. So I ask, why do we have traffic engineers if we the government doesn't listen? We listen to those engineering guys when it comes to, oh radar, lidar and cellular communications.....but they don't know jack when it comes to traffic. Damn, I like soap boxes. :D
hwybear wrote:
booo booo ... I liked the trail, seemed we were going at a nice even pace(maybe even a flow)....and BAM...someone tried to pass on a thread gotcha
I will speak specific to the 2 lanes that I work on, are quite heavy and we have poor drivers (passing groups of cars, cutting in at last moment) and collisions with injuries. A probably 5% at 80km, 75% drive at 85km, 10% 85-95km, remainding 10% above that. The difference in time from one town to the city is 4 minutes (with a 20km speed difference). The town has 2 stoplights and a stop sign as you enter, the city has about 10 traffic lights....so the 4 minutes someone might save is always gone!!
Fine, I'll start it again.....
4 mins for you and your area. I can take 80 KMH roads all the way to and from work, 86 KM's by the way. Lets see, 20 KMH times 86 KM=18 minute difference! yoink. It's all relative to the circumstances, which officers don't ask about when pulling someone over.
The funny thing about the whole speeding charge is that it is about instantainious speed, not the overall general attitude of the driver. Just because someone speeds up to pass does not mean they should be handed a tiresome ticket.
Speed limits in Ontario have been set by non-traffic experts. Traffic engineers say let people drive and set the limit to the 85th percentile. Does the government listen, um no. So I ask, why do we have traffic engineers if we the government doesn't listen? We listen to those engineering guys when it comes to, oh radar, lidar and cellular communications.....but they don't know jack when it comes to traffic.
Damn, I like soap boxes.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
That has nothing to do where I was. Were I live, Hwy 28 is not that heavily travelled and in most areas you can see for miles ahead of you. Moving over to the right is a common practise out here in farm country if you are driving below the speed limit. For a OPP officer to take advantage of that is wrong in my opinion and we all are going to complain to his superiors about it as a group. While driving to the court house in Peterborough from Port Hope I drove at exactly 80 kms an hour until I got to Hwy 115. I had 14 cars pass me, 2 five ton trucks and one semi that was visibly pissed that I was driving at the posted speed limit. I had probably another 20 cars and I would guess 5 more semis behind me that never passed me, but I bet they wanted to. Of the 14 cars that passed me 4 of them flipped me the bird. So tell me something, who was the safe driver? Me because I was driving at the posted speed limit? I believe I was a hazzard and was not staying with the flow of the traffic. I believe I put my own life in danger as well as fellow motorists because I was not keeping up with the flow of the traffic. Do you drive like that when your out with your family HwyBear? Do you honestly drive right at the posted speed limit in your own car? Of course you don't, you know you would be a hazzard on the Hwys. Then why do you think it's ok to do it in your cruiser? What about all the other family's out there that your putting in danger because your not keeping up to the flow of the traffic in your cruiser? "I liked the trail", that's got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. :roll:
hwybear wrote:
booo booo ... I liked the trail, seemed we were going at a nice even pace(maybe even a flow)....and BAM...someone tried to pass on a thread gotcha
I will speak specific to the 2 lanes that I work on, are quite heavy and we have poor drivers (passing groups of cars, cutting in at last moment) and collisions with injuries. A probably 5% at 80km, 75% drive at 85km, 10% 85-95km, remainding 10% above that. The difference in time from one town to the city is 4 minutes (with a 20km speed difference). The town has 2 stoplights and a stop sign as you enter, the city has about 10 traffic lights....so the 4 minutes someone might save is always gone!!
That has nothing to do where I was. Were I live, Hwy 28 is not that heavily travelled and in most areas you can see for miles ahead of you. Moving over to the right is a common practise out here in farm country if you are driving below the speed limit. For a OPP officer to take advantage of that is wrong in my opinion and we all are going to complain to his superiors about it as a group. While driving to the court house in Peterborough from Port Hope I drove at exactly 80 kms an hour until I got to Hwy 115. I had 14 cars pass me, 2 five ton trucks and one semi that was visibly pissed that I was driving at the posted speed limit. I had probably another 20 cars and I would guess 5 more semis behind me that never passed me, but I bet they wanted to. Of the 14 cars that passed me 4 of them flipped me the bird. So tell me something, who was the safe driver? Me because I was driving at the posted speed limit? I believe I was a hazzard and was not staying with the flow of the traffic. I believe I put my own life in danger as well as fellow motorists because I was not keeping up with the flow of the traffic. Do you drive like that when your out with your family HwyBear? Do you honestly drive right at the posted speed limit in your own car? Of course you don't, you know you would be a hazzard on the Hwys. Then why do you think it's ok to do it in your cruiser? What about all the other family's out there that your putting in danger because your not keeping up to the flow of the traffic in your cruiser? "I liked the trail", that's got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
LOL. Sounds like a smart move to me :roll: It's one thing to be oblivious to the fact that your slow driving is dangerous...but doing it intentionally that's a whole other story.
TA462 wrote:
I believe I was a hazzard and was not staying with the flow of the traffic. I believe I put my own life in danger as well as fellow motorists because I was not keeping up with the flow of the traffic.
LOL. Sounds like a smart move to me
It's one thing to be oblivious to the fact that your slow driving is dangerous...but doing it intentionally that's a whole other story.
LOL. Sounds like a smart move to me :roll: It's one thing to be oblivious to the fact that your slow driving is dangerous...but doing it intentionally that's a whole other story. Thats my point, why is it OK for the police to do it intentionally?
Plenderzoosh wrote:
TA462 wrote:
I believe I was a hazzard and was not staying with the flow of the traffic. I believe I put my own life in danger as well as fellow motorists because I was not keeping up with the flow of the traffic.
LOL. Sounds like a smart move to me
It's one thing to be oblivious to the fact that your slow driving is dangerous...but doing it intentionally that's a whole other story.
Thats my point, why is it OK for the police to do it intentionally?
Unless you do what we do, you do not understand. Quickly, we are supposed to demonstrate proper driving at all times, following all rules of the road. Most often we have are in a great big billboard, we do one thing that violates any rule of the road and someone calls into complain. Now pending what it is, we can be spoken to, written up and spoken to, investigated and then charged (both internal and external means) with a variety of penalties. Now add in that I don't even want to get a scratch on any work vehicle, b/c there would be huge consequences if I was deemed to be not in compliance with any rule of the road at the time of the scratch. Now add in more than just driving like the rest of society, we monitor other vehicles for moving and mechanical violations, radio for calls, radio for other units, weather, etc... It is also unsafe for us to drive at higher speeds when doing traffic enforcement, not only we need to set and example, but we can have an abrupt change in direction, that has to be done in safety, taking into consideration other vehicles behind, oncoming, target vehicle, add in road conditions, type of shoulder, width of shoulder, type of road. It is also beneficial to keep right in the lane, this aids in uturns and is defensive driving by being farther away from oncoming traffic. Yes, I do drive similiar in my own vehicle. It saves me money to start with better fuel consumption. I have developed high time management skills, I control my day, my time and no one else. I went to 2 appointments today, leaving lots of time to get there, arrived 20min ahead of time for each. When I fly to a destination, it is about 3hrs to the airport, I allow the trip to take 6hrs in good weather, 9 hrs in bad weather and if need be, grab a hotel the day before. I always allow vast amounts of time for set time periods, who knows what will be inbetween (road closures, train crossings, weather etc) People speed for only 3 reasons 1) a life threatening emergency 2) poor time management 3) Inattentive In the end, we will only agree to disagree. I understand that!
Unless you do what we do, you do not understand. Quickly, we are supposed to demonstrate proper driving at all times, following all rules of the road. Most often we have are in a great big billboard, we do one thing that violates any rule of the road and someone calls into complain. Now pending what it is, we can be spoken to, written up and spoken to, investigated and then charged (both internal and external means) with a variety of penalties. Now add in that I don't even want to get a scratch on any work vehicle, b/c there would be huge consequences if I was deemed to be not in compliance with any rule of the road at the time of the scratch.
Now add in more than just driving like the rest of society, we monitor other vehicles for moving and mechanical violations, radio for calls, radio for other units, weather, etc... It is also unsafe for us to drive at higher speeds when doing traffic enforcement, not only we need to set and example, but we can have an abrupt change in direction, that has to be done in safety, taking into consideration other vehicles behind, oncoming, target vehicle, add in road conditions, type of shoulder, width of shoulder, type of road. It is also beneficial to keep right in the lane, this aids in uturns and is defensive driving by being farther away from oncoming traffic.
Yes, I do drive similiar in my own vehicle.
It saves me money to start with better fuel consumption. I have developed high time management skills, I control my day, my time and no one else. I went to 2 appointments today, leaving lots of time to get there, arrived 20min ahead of time for each. When I fly to a destination, it is about 3hrs to the airport, I allow the trip to take 6hrs in good weather, 9 hrs in bad weather and if need be, grab a hotel the day before. I always allow vast amounts of time for set time periods, who knows what will be inbetween (road closures, train crossings, weather etc)
People speed for only 3 reasons 1) a life threatening emergency 2) poor time management 3) Inattentive
In the end, we will only agree to disagree. I understand that!
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Well you put things into a different light for me now. I never thought about everything else that goes on in a police car during the course of the day for you guys. Hey, it might even be possible that the officer that stopped me was moving to the right because he was trained to and actually wasn't trying to sucker me in. I agree totally with your 3 examples of why people speed but I think you forgot one. 4) to avoid being run over on the hwys. I drive at 85 on all 80 k hwys just to avoid being run over. Lucky for me I only need to drive on 80 k hwys maybe once a month and I use the 80 k back roads as much as possible because its a much more enjoyable drive and to avoid situations like me example in one of my previous posts. I do drive from Port Hope to Whitby everyday to work and drive right at 100-105 in the slow lane on the 401 giving myself an hour to get there, its three lanes out here so I'm out of the way of the quicker drivers. If I'm on the afternoon shift I drive right at 100 coming home. Like you I leave LOTS of time for myself. I've taken a defensive driving course as well as Skip Barber's performance driving course. If I feel the urge to drive fast I'll take my old Trans Am to Shannonville or St Thomas and do some drag racing. I'll move to the left and speed up if I need to to allow a vehicle to merge onto the highway or to allow a truck to change lanes to avoid a slower vehicle. I read the traffic ahead of me and usually know what someones going to do before they do it. I truly feel that I'm not a speeder and that I'm one of the better drivers on the road, except for that one time when I passed an unmarked cruiser because he was just doing his job. :lol: :lol: :wink:
hwybear wrote:
Unless you do what we do, you do not understand.
Well you put things into a different light for me now. I never thought about everything else that goes on in a police car during the course of the day for you guys. Hey, it might even be possible that the officer that stopped me was moving to the right because he was trained to and actually wasn't trying to sucker me in. I agree totally with your 3 examples of why people speed but I think you forgot one. 4) to avoid being run over on the hwys. I drive at 85 on all 80 k hwys just to avoid being run over. Lucky for me I only need to drive on 80 k hwys maybe once a month and I use the 80 k back roads as much as possible because its a much more enjoyable drive and to avoid situations like me example in one of my previous posts. I do drive from Port Hope to Whitby everyday to work and drive right at 100-105 in the slow lane on the 401 giving myself an hour to get there, its three lanes out here so I'm out of the way of the quicker drivers. If I'm on the afternoon shift I drive right at 100 coming home. Like you I leave LOTS of time for myself. I've taken a defensive driving course as well as Skip Barber's performance driving course. If I feel the urge to drive fast I'll take my old Trans Am to Shannonville or St Thomas and do some drag racing. I'll move to the left and speed up if I need to to allow a vehicle to merge onto the highway or to allow a truck to change lanes to avoid a slower vehicle. I read the traffic ahead of me and usually know what someones going to do before they do it. I truly feel that I'm not a speeder and that I'm one of the better drivers on the road, except for that one time when I passed an unmarked cruiser because he was just doing his job.
TA462 and fellow members.... I appreciate most kind words on here, which for about 99% have been. I do like hearing the opposite side of the coin so to speak, but I appreciate "yall" (southern accent) allowing me to explain possible reasons police do what we do. Taking in consideration I was not there at any of these events/incidents, but trying to put myself in the shoes of another brother/sister in blue and this is very hard to do....further making it hard is taking into consideration the posters view on here, the possible officers view (as it is obviously not on here) and roads I've never travelled on. thanks for hearing my 2 timbits worth :wink:
TA462 and fellow members....
I appreciate most kind words on here, which for about 99% have been. I do like hearing the opposite side of the coin so to speak, but I appreciate "yall" (southern accent) allowing me to explain possible reasons police do what we do. Taking in consideration I was not there at any of these events/incidents, but trying to put myself in the shoes of another brother/sister in blue and this is very hard to do....further making it hard is taking into consideration the posters view on here, the possible officers view (as it is obviously not on here) and roads I've never travelled on.
thanks for hearing my 2 timbits worth
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Well I admire what you guys do and I personally don't have the "stones" to do what you guys do. Traffic enforcement would be fun but everything else that goes along with your job I don't think I could handle or even want to. Thanks for keeping the highways safe and thanks for protecting us from ourselves.
Well I admire what you guys do and I personally don't have the "stones" to do what you guys do. Traffic enforcement would be fun but everything else that goes along with your job I don't think I could handle or even want to. Thanks for keeping the highways safe and thanks for protecting us from ourselves.
The other night, I was behind a Harley at a red light (just a Sportster, so not a REAL biker ;) . Just as the light was about to turn green, another bike roared through from the left side, just beating his red light. Well of curse the two riders had throw the low, two finger salute to each other which meant the guy I was behind now had to get his hand back up to the clutch which cost me a good 2 or 3 seconds waiting for him to grab a gear and go (and YES, I whined to my wife, "Well THERE'S two seconds of my life I'll never get back!") So you can just imagine what 4 MINUTES would do to me!!!! That is SO not true. The further ahead you are, the better the chance that you'll make green lights rather than red. Sometimes, the series of lights are such that speeding a bit lets you just make each green. Not saying that a good thing, or that everyone should speed to beat lights. Just an observation. And passing "packs" of cars becomes necessary when everyone is all packed up tight together. If I DO encounter oncoming traffic, I feel NO guilt wedging myself back in line on the bumper of some dork following way to close with absolutely no intention of passing the even dorkier dork at the front of the line! Slower is safer. Book
The other night, I was behind a Harley at a red light (just a Sportster, so not a REAL biker . Just as the light was about to turn green, another bike roared through from the left side, just beating his red light. Well of curse the two riders had throw the low, two finger salute to each other which meant the guy I was behind now had to get his hand back up to the clutch which cost me a good 2 or 3 seconds waiting for him to grab a gear and go (and YES, I whined to my wife, "Well THERE'S two seconds of my life I'll never get back!")
So you can just imagine what 4 MINUTES would do to me!!!!
hwybear wrote:
...the city has about 10 traffic lights....so the 4 minutes someone might save is always gone!!
That is SO not true. The further ahead you are, the better the chance that you'll make green lights rather than red. Sometimes, the series of lights are such that speeding a bit lets you just make each green. Not saying that a good thing, or that everyone should speed to beat lights. Just an observation.
And passing "packs" of cars becomes necessary when everyone is all packed up tight together. If I DO encounter oncoming traffic, I feel NO guilt wedging myself back in line on the bumper of some dork following way to close with absolutely no intention of passing the even dorkier dork at the front of the line!
I have been driving the speed limit for the past three years, covering about 60,000 km. Aside from tailgaters, I have never had a problem on two-lane roads, nor have I been a safety hazard (and no, I'm not one of those oblivious drivers). Never been flipped the bird, not even a fist shaken in my direction. I did have one trucker honk as he passed me on a four-lane road, where I was doing 90 km/h. We then had a bit of a conversation over the radio. Even on the 400, where "flow" tends to be 120 km/h up to 140 km/h in some areas, I'm still not a safety hazard. Cars usually follow at a good distance, and those passing me can do it without cutting anyone off. There are a few drivers who don't move back into the right lane and frustrate the truckers, but that would happen anyways with those who were taught to always move over for merging vehicles (rant for another day).
I have been driving the speed limit for the past three years, covering about 60,000 km. Aside from tailgaters, I have never had a problem on two-lane roads, nor have I been a safety hazard (and no, I'm not one of those oblivious drivers). Never been flipped the bird, not even a fist shaken in my direction. I did have one trucker honk as he passed me on a four-lane road, where I was doing 90 km/h. We then had a bit of a conversation over the radio.
Even on the 400, where "flow" tends to be 120 km/h up to 140 km/h in some areas, I'm still not a safety hazard. Cars usually follow at a good distance, and those passing me can do it without cutting anyone off. There are a few drivers who don't move back into the right lane and frustrate the truckers, but that would happen anyways with those who were taught to always move over for merging vehicles (rant for another day).
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Issued in a news release by Toronto Police Traffic Services Sergeant Tim Burrows, these were the top 10 peeves of drivers in an on-line survey by the Toronto Police:
10. Slow drivers
9. Slower-moving drivers who pull into your lane when you're going faster
gotcha
