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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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proper procedure
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:27 pm 
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When I was issue a speeding ticket the officer approached to the passenger side and started talking to the passenger.
He was explaining to the passenger what kind of laser he used and at what distance he tagged my car. He did not say what speed my car was going.
I gave the passenger my driver license to give to the officer. The officer went back to him car to write up the ticket. He came back to the passenger side, explains how to fill out the ticket and handed the ticket to the passenger.
All this time the officer did not talk to me nor did I say anything.
Later I took the ticket out of the envelope found I was ticketed for 32Km over in an 80Km zone.
I decided to fight the ticket and requested for disclosure. When I got the disclosure he had written “thought it was 90kmh” but I did not say that since he never talked to me.
Do I have a valid case for dismissal?
Is there a clause in the OHA or the POA that I can use as my defenses?

What is an acceptable distance that a 904nm laser can be use for speed assessment?

Is it mandatory for an officer to be re-certified for operating a laser?

BTW your site contains lots of good information and links.

Thanks
knowjustabit


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:21 pm 
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Section 3(3) of the POA, the notice must be served personally within 30 days. Looks like he didn't do that. You'll need the passenger to testify but that should be enough to toss the ticket.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:01 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Passenger side approach is common. It is to prevent being hit standing beside the drivers door. I find it harded than hard to believe the officer did not speak to you. If the officer did not "speak" to you then you have no requirement to surrender a licence to which you did.

I will not reach into a car to obtain documents from the driver or vice versa. It is not safe to do so. The passenger is usually there and passes the documents back and forth. I always ask the passenger to pass the documents and observe same back to the driver.

Can argue the "personal service" until the cows come home, but common sense should be used in this situation. It is not safe for a driver to be exiting their vehicle, not safe for an officer on the driver's side, not safe for police to reach into a vehicle, not convenient/nor polite for a driver to reach across another person.

ps...thanks...just thought of another little tidbit for my notes!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:30 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Can argue the "personal service" until the cows come home, but common sense should be used in this situation.
Common sense trumping provincial legislation? They aren't written with common sense, why would we start using it after the fact?

I figured out the safety issues right off the bat. I realized why the officer did what he did. But you've got to figure out how to meet the requirements in a safe manner, not ignore the requirements.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:04 am 
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hawybear: all your points are valid.

Ticketcombat: on my court date when would be the time to ask for dismissal sighting Section 3(3) of the POA?

If the judge does not grant the dismissal can I still proceed with the trial?
If so I need to know:
What is an acceptable distance that a 904nm laser can be use for speed assessment?
Is it mandatory for an officer to be re-certified for operating a laser? How often?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:09 am 
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Hey knowjus''

The other day I was driving past 1 of those speed signs.
They have the posted speed then your speed.
(not sure what kind of radar it is)
I was looking for street # "so I was slow"
The speed changed a lot on the sign because it is hard to get a single car zeroed in.

It may depend on how many other cars were around you.

It may be a good question?

Cheers
Viper1

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:11 pm 
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knowjustabit wrote:
Ticketcombat: on my court date when would be the time to ask for dismissal sighting Section 3(3) of the POA?

If the judge does not grant the dismissal can I still proceed with the trial?
If so I need to know:
What is an acceptable distance that a 904nm laser can be use for speed assessment?
Is it mandatory for an officer to be re-certified for operating a laser? How often?

Thanks
There are no guarantees when you get to court. The justice may see things completely different. That's why I suggest you prepare for the full blown trial just in case. Request disclosure to answer you questions above: ask for the manual, ask for the certification procedures and whether the officer was in compliance/properly trained. If you don't get disclosure, request a stay.

Improper service: there are different ways to dismiss the charge. The most fun way is to ask the officer on the stand: "Did you hand me the ticket?" Watch the squirming and enjoy. Then after the prosecution rests, make a motion on non-suit based on improper service. Another example can be found on FYST, see #3 Parking, third paragraph.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:45 pm 
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viper1 wrote:
The other day I was driving past 1 of those speed signs.
They have the posted speed then your speed.
(not sure what kind of radar it is)
I was looking for street # "so I was slow"
The speed changed a lot on the sign because it is hard to get a single car zeroed in.


Most of those radar signs are cheapy "X" band that is horrible. They are pointed in a direction, probably not directional specific, not fast mode either. Just plain ole 1970's radar. The range will be reduced in those b/c the oscillator being constantly on, which also affects how it tracks vehicles.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:47 pm 
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ticketcombat wrote:
hwybear wrote:
Can argue the "personal service" until the cows come home, but common sense should be used in this situation.
Common sense trumping provincial legislation? They aren't written with common sense, why would we start using it after the fact?


Damn, I have to stop doing that....thinking stuff again! :lol:

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