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No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:20 pm
Posts: 5
Please help me in confirming my belief that I am NOT at fault for the accident you're about to see. I record a dash cam every day and have video of the incident. Two police officers and one retired officer believe the other driver is at fault.

Please excuse the music, I was listening to the show "The Unit" theme song and forgot to edit sound out.
http://youtu.be/DyiDhk9NN4c

No officer came on scene and we were instructed to visit the local Collision Centre within 72 hours. I provided the following statement. Insurance calls me the next day and with out even seeing my video says I'm at fault simply because I was the one who left a stop sign no matter what he may have done wrong. I got right angry with the lady and asked how they could make such a decision with out seeing my video. She seemed surprised like she didnt even know I had it when I wrote it in my statement at the collision centre...
Please watch my video and give me your honest opinion. I believe I had occupied my lane and he was simply darting around the slowing vehicle in front of him with no regard to surroundings. On my word and what you can see if the video he did not signal his intentions before I committed to my turn.

Actual statement minus names.
"I, John Doe was at a full stop on McMichael ST facing South with intention of merging on to Princess St East. Traffic was medium to light and noticed the left lane was clear except for one vehicle, I checked to make sure no other vehicles had their indicators on with intentions to change lanes. I rolled out and timed myself to the vehicle in the left lane while also continuing to make sure no one had intentions of changing lanes. Once I committed to the turn I was surprised by a small white car banging in to the side of me. I noticed that same car previously and it had no indicators on showing they wished to changed lanes. This car collided with me after unsafely changing lanes and not using indicators.

I believe Mr. John Doe was driving aggressive and attempting to pass a slowing vehicle with out properly checking if it was safe to do so, signalling and is at full fault for the cause of this accident."


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:31 pm
Posts: 502
Sorry.

Even though he broke 2 traffic laws you did make an illegal turn.(so you are at fault)

Cool video

Cheers
Viper1

_________________
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:20 pm
Posts: 5
Appreciate the comment Viper but could you please elaborate on how it was an illegal turn, possibly quoting specific acts or legislation. I'm not looking for normal "opinions" I was hoping to find some professional opinions from LEOs, Lawyers and/or people in the insurance industry specifically the investigation side.

I don't know how that could be an illegal turn if so we better warn the 100s of people who make the same turn every day (they just don't get some aggressive, in a hurry douche slamming in to them) that they are at the mercy of someone just deciding to switch lanes with no indicators. Is it only "illegal" because it resulted in a collision? I've been making this same turn for 5+ years every Mon-Fri after dropping my kid of at school and all it took was this one ass bag to screw my record up...
Are you seriously saying the only "legal" turn at that stop sign is to wait for BOTH lanes to be clear then proceed? If that is the case some people will be waiting hours to get out at certain times of the day. Would the law read something like "when it safe to do so"?

I see it as the Stop sign was the past, I had occupied my lane and at that moment of occupation he barreled in to me. He was even the one apologizing at the scene, he knew it was his fault!

viper1 wrote:
Sorry.

Even though he broke 2 traffic laws you did make an illegal turn.(so you are at fault)

Cool video

Cheers
Viper1


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:29 pm
Posts: 41
gimpedchameleon wrote:
I'm not looking for normal "opinions" I was hoping to find some professional opinions from LEOs, Lawyers and/or people in the insurance industry specifically the investigation side.


LOL

You need to realize that the insurance laws are not perfect. You can be completely innocent in an accident but be deemed responsible by your Insurance supplier.

Great video !


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 279
Why do you think you're not at fault for everything? You made an unsafe left turn and/or failed to yield. YOU are making a left turn on to a road where others have the right of way. You almost hit the first car's rear, plus, clearly your turn can't be said to have been made in safety because other driver's had to take steps to avoid a collision. In fact, a collision did occur! Do you somehow think that because the left lane was free, you are entitled to make a left when another driver is proceeding on the curb lane? Is that your rationality? Good luck establishing that was the actual case----all the other driver has to say is that he was already mid-way changing lanes and YOU cut in front of him with your unsafe turn. Their story is much more believable than yours; plus, all you had to do was WAIT for him to pass so as to ensure your maneuver would actually BE safe.

So, your video (while good quality) actually won't help you---it will only confirm your fault and unsafe turn! I would NOT be sharing that with anyone. I'm amazed you weren't charged for the unsafe lane turn.

Read the Insurance fault rules and you'll quickly realize why you're at 100% fault. They are a regulation under the Ontario Insurance Act.


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:20 pm
Posts: 5
Epic fail buddy!

I didn't almost hit the first person you fool! Did you even read my statement that explains I was yielding to the car in the left as it passed I made my way in to the left lane when the other car that hit me. Please tell me how you yield to someone who is trying to race around a slowing vehicle and makes a sudden lane change! He gave no indication that he was going to change lanes other than hitting me.
Are you the local troll on these forums?

highwaystar wrote:
Why do you think you're not at fault for everything? You made an unsafe left turn and/or failed to yield. YOU are making a left turn on to a road where others have the right of way. You almost hit the first car's rear, plus, clearly your turn can't be said to have been made in safety because other driver's had to take steps to avoid a collision. In fact, a collision did occur! Do you somehow think that because the left lane was free, you are entitled to make a left when another driver is proceeding on the curb lane? Is that your rationality? Good luck establishing that was the actual case----all the other driver has to say is that he was already mid-way changing lanes and YOU cut in front of him with your unsafe turn. Their story is much more believable than yours; plus, all you had to do was WAIT for him to pass so as to ensure your maneuver would actually BE safe.

So, your video (while good quality) actually won't help you---it will only confirm your fault and unsafe turn! I would NOT be sharing that with anyone. I'm amazed you weren't charged for the unsafe lane turn.

Read the Insurance fault rules and you'll quickly realize why you're at 100% fault. They are a regulation under the Ontario Insurance Act.


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 279
Yikes---you with your 3 posts (and only joining yesterday!) are calling ME out for being some troll. I guess you don't like hearing the truth. Presumably, you didn't check out the video at the 21 second mark where you're just 'timing' your left turn on the basis that the car continues at the same speed just before you get hit by the other guy! I wouldn't doubt you would justify your actions had you hit THAT guy too!

Sounds to me like you've already got all the answers you need to justify your actions!!!! Have you even READ case law yet? Given your questions/comments, you clearly aren't aware of the law! And with your attitude, I'm amazed the members on this site aren't all jumping over one another to help you out! Moving on....


Last edited by highwaystar on Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:06 pm
Posts: 354
You were not occupying the lane you were in the process. The other driver was freely flowing in the lane. You had the stop sign.

That makes you at fault. You were entering the traffic lane.

For an unsafe lane change you need to already be traveling in the lane. The other driver does not have to and cannot take into account what a person might who is turning onto the roadway legally. You need to not move until it is safe to do so. The fact that there was a collision means it was not.

OPS copper

ps and just because you do not get the answer you are looking for does not make someone a troll. Some of us do this for a living and there is a good chance we may know more about this than you. Insulting those who do not give you the answer your looking for just makes you look childish.


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:20 pm
Posts: 5
Please elaborate on how one safely avoids someone who blindly swerves in to a lane you are entering!? Will someone please explain this to me. This driver gave no indication he wanted to enter that lane or I would have gladly waited and proceeded when safe. When is it safe? Do we wait until ALL traffic in the right lane clears before entering the left lane from a left hand turn?
So next time I have a couple scratches on my left side just side swipe someone coming from a stop sign and it's there fault!? This logic is shameful and retarded.
You can not yield to someone who is driving recklessly as he was. He was trying to speed by a slowing vehicle and didn't check if anyone was beside him.

That person was insulted because they attacked me with ignorance and false facts!

I don't even know why I came here!? I imagine I'm conversing with armchair cowboys who think they know what they're talking about. I already have the opinions of two sworn officers and one retired who spent a lot of his time as a traffic officer.

OPS Copper wrote:
You were not occupying the lane you were in the process. The other driver was freely flowing in the lane. You had the stop sign.

That makes you at fault. You were entering the traffic lane.

For an unsafe lane change you need to already be traveling in the lane. The other driver does not have to and cannot take into account what a person might who is turning onto the roadway legally. You need to not move until it is safe to do so. The fact that there was a collision means it was not.

OPS copper

ps and just because you do not get the answer you are looking for does not make someone a troll. Some of us do this for a living and there is a good chance we may know more about this than you. Insulting those who do not give you the answer your looking for just makes you look childish.


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:20 pm
Posts: 5
You need to get your eyes checked... The silver car that I waited for was a safe distance from me and was no where near close to any kind of collision. The two opposite lanes I was waiting in had no traffic. I could have waited all day, while waiting for him to pass no one else gave any sign they wished to enter the left lane. So I accelerated safely behind him until I was hit by the white civic. As stated previously I have made this turn for 5+ years and continue to do so, now I just take in to account that someone could just swerve in to the left lane with no indicators and apparently it's my fault.

highwaystar wrote:
Yikes---you with your 3 posts (and only joining yesterday!) are calling ME out for being some troll. I guess you don't like hearing the truth. Presumably, you didn't check out the video at the 21 second mark where you're just 'timing' your left turn on the basis that the car continues at the same speed just before you get hit by the other guy! I wouldn't doubt you would justify your actions had you hit THAT guy too!

Sounds to me like you've already got all the answers you need to justify your actions!!!! Have you even READ case law yet? Given your questions/comments, you clearly aren't aware of the law! And with your attitude, I'm amazed the members on this site aren't all jumping over one another to help you out! Moving on....


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Ontario
In any situation relying on another driver's turn signal to make a decision as to when you feel it is safe to turn is problematic because you have no way of knowing if they have a malfunctioning signal light, forgot their signal on etc. I don't mean to sound condescending but your experience illustrates to everyone that you are always better off to wait until the coast is clear, because an accident not matter who is at fault aside from property damage can seriously injure or kill.


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 684
Just wondering how we are to form an opinion when the video that you are using for "evidence" is private?


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Re: No charges but insurance says I am at fault for accident
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:06 pm
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Well your three sworn officers opinion means squat since your ins is holding you at fault.

Ops


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