Can I drive parents car and renew sticker/medical suspension

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justsomeguy
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Can I drive parents car and renew sticker/medical suspension

Unread post by justsomeguy on

My parents are both quite elderly. A few months ago, my mother had a stroke and cannot walk now, and hence, cannot drive. Her license has been suspended for medical reasons, and in all likelihood, she will never walk or drive again. This week, my father also got his license suspended due to poor vision (optometrist reported it to MTO after his recent eye exam). There's a chance he could get his license back in a few months if he has laser eye surgery, gets retested, asks for a reinstatement, etc.

However, in the mean time, they have two perfectly good cars sitting in the driveway, both plated and insured, but that are now sitting unused. I actually live out of province, and have been here for a few months to help out after the stroke, get the house ready to sell, etc, but am going to drive back to my own place out of province in my own car in a few weeks (since I haven't been there for a quite a while and want to check on it, and drive back before winter sets in). I'll probably have to return in a few weeks or months, but since it will be winter and don't want to drive across Canada in the winter and snow storms, I was hoping to fly and just use one of my parent's cars. Two things I'm worried about:

1. Will my parent's car insurance be cancelled or be null/void since they have suspended driver's licenses? I know my mother paid her insurance for the year just before her stroke, so there's still about 8 months of coverage on it. Normally, I'd be OK to drive her car, but now?

2. Can I renew the license plate sticker? A few weeks ago, she got a renewal for her driver's license and license plate sticker. But last week, she got the letter stating her license was suspended. Will I be able to renew her sticker? I know SHE can't drive, but "I" can. Hopefully there's a provision for this, because I could be driving her car to run errands for her, or drive her to a medical appointment, etc, in her car. So there's a legitimate reason to renew to the sticker on a car registered to someone with a suspended license. :|

3. Is the insurance null and void now that both parents have suspended licenses? Or only if one of them attempted to drive while under suspension. Again, there could be a legitimate reason that a family member with a valid license would need to use the car.

I'm hesitant to call the insurance broker because it's a small business and they know all customers by name, and even if I try to make an anonymous call, they will probably figure out who it is. Or may refuse to give info without knowing who's file it is. I don't want to mess things up. My mother's car is insured for another 8 months, and my dad's for another 4 months since they paid up front a year's premiums when they were due, and their licenses were still valid. I'd just like to know that I can still drive their cars when I fly back, so I won't have to worry about driving my own car across Canada in the middle of winter, or have to rent a car when I get to Ontario to help out my parents later on. I'll probably be here for a few weeks or even a couple of months. This time I had my own car, with my own insurance, but when I return, I intend to fly, and will definitely need a car to use during my stay.

I'm also hesitant to go to the MTO or licensing bureau because they may flag the account or just not help me because I have an out of province license (which is valid, but not from Ontario). Since the registered owner has a suspended license, they may just say there's no point in renewing the plates. They're about to expire in a few weeks on my mom's car, but as mentioned, the insurance is valid for another 8 months. I got the emissions test done a few weeks ago and should have just got the license plate stickers renewed for 2 years at that time, but I didn't. Now I don't know what to do...

Any information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! :mrgreen:


viper1
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Unread post by viper1 on

You can renew the sticker's just take in the form and pay.(or on-line)
They will keep the insurance on it as long as it is paid up.
Anyone can own a car suspended or not.

As to your driving it casually not likely an issue. You could add your name to the insurance if you wanted to use the car a lot.

You can buy/sell cars with no license.

Cheers
Cindan
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use at your own risk"


justsomeguy
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Unread post by justsomeguy on

viper1 wrote:You can renew the sticker's just take in the form and pay.(or on-line)
They will keep the insurance on it as long as it is paid up.
Anyone can own a car suspended or not.

As to your driving it casually not likely an issue. You could add your name to the insurance if you wanted to use the car a lot.

You can buy/sell cars with no license.

Cheers
Cindan
Great, thanks! All good (and interesting) information to know. I still have the renewal form they MTO mailed, so I'll take that in with the emissions tests papers, pay the two-year rate and walk out with a sticker that's good until 2016. I'm sure by then we'll figure out what to do with the cars (probably sell them in the next year or so). When I go in, I won't say anything, other than I'm here to pay for the license plate renewal for my mother. Sounds like it should be easy enough.

And for the insurance, I won't tell them anything. It's possible they might find out through a spot check, but until then, I'll just keep my mouth shut and when the next renewal comes, if I still need to use the car, we'll renew the insurance. I might even get my mother to call and put me on as an occasional driver, but part of me is saying to just avoid speaking with them as much as possible. When I still lived in Ontario, I'd often drive her car when she was with me and we were going somewhere. I never drove her car alone, since I always had my own. In any case, if the insurance company has any questions about how often I drive it, I can show them the receipt from the emissions test, which will show the date and mileage, and any future oil change receipts, etc. I don't think I'll be driving her car a lot, but if I'm here, I'll definitely drive it occasionally if I have no other means of transportation. And in the depths of suburbia, public transit is not a viable option.

Thanks again!


leehoewonek
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Unread post by leehoewonek on

And for the insurance, I won't tell them anything. It's possible they might find out through a spot check, but until then, I'll just keep my mouth shut and when the next renewal comes, if I still need to use the car, we'll renew the insurance. I might even get my mother to call and put me on as an occasional driver, but part of me is saying to just avoid speaking with them as much as possible. When I still lived in Ontario, I'd often drive her car when she was with me and we were going somewhere. I never drove her car alone, since I always had my own. In any case, if the insurance company has any questions about how often I drive it, I can show them the receipt from the emissions test, which will show the date and mileage, and any future oil change receipts, etc. I don't think I'll be driving her car a lot, but if I'm here, I'll definitely drive it occasionally if I have no other means of transportation. And in the depths of suburbia, public transit is not a viable option.

Thanks again!
Thirty years ago my mother was rear-ended by a high-school girl. Both cars were totalled, and my mother was seriously injured, so there was a significant settlement. The girl was listed as an occasional driver, but the insurance company learned that her father (the registered driver) was out of the country for a year and she was driving the car every day. Coverage was declined, and the girl's family needed to take out a second mortgage to pay the settlement.

I would recommend notifying the insurance company of the situation - remove both parents and put yourself down as occasional. Otherwise, if there is a claim, you may find it declined as well.


justsomeguy
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Unread post by justsomeguy on

Good point. I definitely don't want to try to deceive an insurance company, because they could deny a claim. Just wondering... if I were to call them up and let them know about the situation (unless they find out themselves through a routine check), I wonder if they would say I have to be the principal driver (instead of being listed as an occasional driver) on my mother's car now, seeing as my mother's license is suspended, so she can no longer be the principal driver. Technically, I guess I would be the principal driver now, even though I would be driving the car minimally. Someone has to be listed as a principal driver...

If so, it may not even have that much of an impact on the insurance premium. I have a clean driving record. There might be a slight increase or decrease in premiums, so probably nothing to worry about. Since the premiums have been paid for a year, it might just result in a small refund or require a small extra payment, depending how the calculate the rates with me as a principal driver. Seems odd to even think that, but technically I guess that's the way it would be. :roll:


leehoewonek
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Unread post by leehoewonek on

Yes, if you will be driving it you'll want to be down as principal. Since you'll only be driving it occasionally, and not to work every day, they'll list it as 'pleasure only', which will result in lower rates. They should do this automatically if you explain the situation to them.


justsomeguy
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Unread post by justsomeguy on

Thanks for all the info everyone! :)


argyll
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Unread post by argyll on

Just be up front with the insurance broker. They should be on your side. At least you'll know what the true facts are and can sleep easy knowing that you won't have a claim denied. I had a unique situation a while back that I won't go into similar to yours and laid it out to the broker and asked for an email from her with her position so that I could use that if there were any issues. She happily provided it.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


justsomeguy
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Unread post by justsomeguy on

Very coincidentally, I was speaking with the insurance agent today since my father needed to cancel his insurance (he recently sold his car, now that he can no longer drive). The insurance agent asked about my mother's car, and I mentioned that my mother will not be driving any more either, but to keep the policy active until further notice. I told her that my parents gave me the car and I'm taking it out of province very soon, where I will register it in my name. She said that she will need something in writing, which is a good thing, to have a paper trail. I should send an email to confirm the details of our phone conversation, just in case there is ever any question about the details. I was very up front and honest with her, and it seems like everything will be fine. Once the policy is cancelled, they will send a refund to my mother for the unused months. Not that it matters much at this end, but I also need to get some forms completed since the car is a gift, to hopefully not have to pay tax on the current value of the car (shouldn't be much, it's an older car anyways, low book value, low mileage, but lots of memories and sentimental value, and it's good on gas, so I can use it for me daily driving and save money on gas, and it will be easier to park in small urban parking spaces than my large van).


Stanton
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Unread post by Stanton on

justsomeguy wrote:I also need to get some forms completed since the car is a gift, to hopefully not have to pay tax on the current value of the car
You are exempt from paying tax when the vehicle is from a parent or other close family member.

The full list is here: https://www.ontario.ca/driving-and-road ... ip-vehicle


justsomeguy
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Unread post by justsomeguy on

Stanton wrote:
justsomeguy wrote:I also need to get some forms completed since the car is a gift, to hopefully not have to pay tax on the current value of the car
You are exempt from paying tax when the vehicle is from a parent or other close family member.

The full list is here: https://www.ontario.ca/driving-and-road ... ip-vehicle
Thanks. If I were keeping the car in Ontario that would work, but it doesn't seem to be universal amongst all provinces. When I looked into it in my home province, I was told that I would need to pay tax on current value of the car, unless I have some forms filled out (and I think notarized, but that part may not be necessary). It's further complicated, because it's a gift between a parent and a child AND an out of province registration. I looked into putting the car in my name in Ontario, so I'd have an Ontario registration with my name on it, which would make it easier to register in my home province. In the end, I found out the MTO can't register a car to me since I do not have an Ontario driver's license. They could only issue me a temporary paper permit to put in the window. I'd have to arrange for my own insurance too. However, if I had an Ontario driver's license, I would have to get an emissions test, an MTO safety check, Ontario insurance and then I could register it in Ontario and get Ontario plates and license plate sticker and hopefully not have to pay tax on the car since it's a gift. Then I could put the car on a train to ship it out to me and go through another mechanical safety inspection since it would be an out of province car, possibly an emissions test and then register it in the new province and hope I don't have to pay tax on the car again. Quite a hassle!

I really only need to drive the car to the train yard in Toronto for it to be loaded on a freight train, then pick it up at the other end, and take it to a garage for an out of province safety inspection. I don't feel it's worth the hassle of all those above mentioned things. It would be easiest to just leave the car in my mother's name, with her insurance still on the car. Drive it to the train station, send it off, I pick it up at the other end, take it to the garage still with my mother's Ontario plates and insurance, then when the car passes the inspection, I can get my new plates and insurance. And if I get the right paperwork, and original bill of sale to prove that sales tax was paid on the car when new, I will even be exempt from paying sales tax! I guess they want this because theoretically, my mother could have bought the car in Alberta where the is no tax, moved to Ontario, registered the car there (still in her name) and there would never have been any tax paid on the car (although it's always been an Ontario car, bought in Ontario and registered in Ontario, and only ever registered to her). I'd avoid that hassle if the car was already in my name, but as outlined above, you can see why that's not a feasible option.

But thanks for the tip! I'm sure it will be helpful to people in a similar situation who are getting an Ontario registered car as a gift, and keeping it registered in Ontario. My biggest worry was that I would not be able to renew the license plate sticker since the registered owner of the car has a suspended driver's license. Although I haven't done it yet, it seems like I will have no problems renewing the sticker, which just expired. I want to keep things legit, so I'll have to renew the sticker for one year, just to drive the car to Toronto to drop it off at the CP train yard, and then drive it about 10 kilometers at the the other end when I pick it up in my home province. But I'd rather pay fee for a new sticker than risk getting a ticket for an expired sticker, and who knows what other consequences. And this way, I won't have to rush to get new plates if I can't do it right away. I can even park the car on the street legally with valid Ontario plates and insurance.


argyll
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Unread post by argyll on

If you are driving it that short amount then I don't think you have a problem




Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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