Short version: Got pulled over early friday morning for 'improper rear lights'. The officer walked over, said,"i smell alcohol." She asked me to give a breathalyzer and I blew a 0.019. I'd had 1 glass of wine with dinner about 5 hours ago. Since I have a G2, the 0.019 is illegal 10 minutes later I had 2 $110 tickets (1 for BAC, 1 for the rear lights). She gave back my license and called a tow for my car. She also said, "you may get a letter of 30-day suspension from the ministry in the mail". This is my issue: I cannot afford the 30 day suspension. I am a sales rep on the road and a 30-day suspension means I will be fired. My question is. - If I go and pay up, what are the chances I will get the suspension? - If the suspension is guaranteed on paying the fine (option 1), can I get an Early resolution meeting and plead for a monetary fine only? or a 3 day suspension? I've spent the last 36 hours reading everything and pulling my hair out. I've run out of hair to pull out. Help!
Short version: Got pulled over early friday morning for 'improper rear lights'. The officer walked over, said,"i smell alcohol." She asked me to give a breathalyzer and I blew a 0.019. I'd had 1 glass of wine with dinner about 5 hours ago. Since I have a G2, the 0.019 is illegal
10 minutes later I had 2 $110 tickets (1 for BAC, 1 for the rear lights). She gave back my license and called a tow for my car.
She also said, "you may get a letter of 30-day suspension from the ministry in the mail".
This is my issue: I cannot afford the 30 day suspension. I am a sales rep on the road and a 30-day suspension means I will be fired.
My question is.
- If I go and pay up, what are the chances I will get the suspension?
- If the suspension is guaranteed on paying the fine (option 1), can I get an Early resolution meeting and plead for a monetary fine only? or a 3 day suspension?
I've spent the last 36 hours reading everything and pulling my hair out. I've run out of hair to pull out.
The Courts have no control over the suspension, it's automatically applied by the MTO if you're convicted. The only way you can avoid the suspension is to either be found not guilty or work out a plea deal with the Crown to a different offence. I'd start by requesting an early resolution meeting with the Crown and seeing if they can offer you any deal. If not you may want to proceed to trial since you don't really have anything to lose by fighting it.
The Courts have no control over the suspension, it's automatically applied by the MTO if you're convicted. The only way you can avoid the suspension is to either be found not guilty or work out a plea deal with the Crown to a different offence.
I'd start by requesting an early resolution meeting with the Crown and seeing if they can offer you any deal. If not you may want to proceed to trial since you don't really have anything to lose by fighting it.
Thanks! that's what I figured. Wonder why the officer said I 'may' get a 30 day suspension is it is the law
Stanton wrote:
The Courts have no control over the suspension, it's automatically applied by the MTO if you're convicted. The only way you can avoid the suspension is to either be found not guilty or work out a plea deal with the Crown to a different offence.
I'd start by requesting an early resolution meeting with the Crown and seeing if they can offer you any deal. If not you may want to proceed to trial since you don't really have anything to lose by fighting it.
Thanks! that's what I figured. Wonder why the officer said I 'may' get a 30 day suspension is it is the law
Also, any idea on how far out the early resolution meetings are from the date you file the request?
Stanton wrote:
The Courts have no control over the suspension, it's automatically applied by the MTO if you're convicted. The only way you can avoid the suspension is to either be found not guilty or work out a plea deal with the Crown to a different offence.
I'd start by requesting an early resolution meeting with the Crown and seeing if they can offer you any deal. If not you may want to proceed to trial since you don't really have anything to lose by fighting it.
Also, any idea on how far out the early resolution meetings are from the date you file the request?
umm 100% ? If you pay the fine, you're admitting guilt. It's not going to slip in between some imaginary cracks. No. Either you'll be guilty of BAC above zero and a 30 day suspension, you'll receive a plea deal for a lessor charge, or you'll be found not guilty. There's no in between. Novice drivers with alcohol in their system isn't something they play around with. I wouldn't count on them bargaining with you. Prosecutor isn't not going to be able to offer you a made up penalty, they can only reduce the charge. Penalty is automatically set by the MTO once your conviction is registered. They can't make your 30 days disappear. It's automatically set once it's out of their hands. You've only been charged. A 30 day suspension will come after you are convicted in court or when you mail in your guilty plea. Officer is only there to enforce the law, not to convict you. Time will vary courthouse to courthouse.
soconfused wrote:
- If I go and pay up, what are the chances I will get the suspension?
umm 100% ? If you pay the fine, you're admitting guilt. It's not going to slip in between some imaginary cracks.
soconfused wrote:
- If the suspension is guaranteed on paying the fine (option 1), can I get an Early resolution meeting and plead for a monetary fine only? or a 3 day suspension?
No. Either you'll be guilty of BAC above zero and a 30 day suspension, you'll receive a plea deal for a lessor charge, or you'll be found not guilty. There's no in between. Novice drivers with alcohol in their system isn't something they play around with. I wouldn't count on them bargaining with you. Prosecutor isn't not going to be able to offer you a made up penalty, they can only reduce the charge. Penalty is automatically set by the MTO once your conviction is registered. They can't make your 30 days disappear. It's automatically set once it's out of their hands.
soconfused wrote:
Thanks! that's what I figured. Wonder why the officer said I 'may' get a 30 day suspension is it is the law
You've only been charged. A 30 day suspension will come after you are convicted in court or when you mail in your guilty plea. Officer is only there to enforce the law, not to convict you.
soconfused wrote:
Also, any idea on how far out the early resolution meetings are from the date you file the request?
And 1 glass of wine, a true legit size would be gone within one hour after the final sip, Not the 5 clear hours you advised us and 0.019 is also higher than one typical glass of wine
And 1 glass of wine, a true legit size would be gone within one hour after the final sip, Not the 5 clear hours you advised us and 0.019 is also higher than one typical glass of wine
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
I was under the impression "that the roadside machine" only gave an indication of alcohol present I did not know that it could give an exact #. That said: If the original post was true (.019) Would he have reached .00 if he elected to get a second reading at the station? Cheers Viper1
hwybear wrote:
And 1 glass of wine, a true legit size would be gone within one hour after the final sip, Not the 5 clear hours you advised us and 0.019 is also higher than one typical glass of wine
I was under the impression "that the roadside machine" only gave an indication of alcohol present I did not know that it could give
an exact #.
That said:
If the original post was true (.019)
Would he have reached .00 if he elected to get a second reading at the station?
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
The screening device used by police is capable of displaying exact readings, but will display a letter code for people over the legal limit. For a BAC between 0 and 0.049, it will display an exact reading. For a BAC between 0.050 and 0.099 it will display an "A". This will result in a roadside suspension. Note that the legal limit is actually 0.08, so some drivers might actually be over the limit but get off with just a suspension. For a BAC of 0.100 or more it will display an "F". This will result in the driver's arrest for over 80. The device can also be put into calibration mode, where it will always display a full digital reading instead of a letter code, but that's strictly for calibration testing. As for your second question, very hard to say how quickly the OP's body would process the alcohol since it depends on gender, weight, build, metabolism, etc. Probably take at least a good hour or more. Keep in mind though, the officer can use a different roadside device for a retest if requested. They don't need to take the person to the station for a full test.
viper1 wrote:
I was under the impression "that the roadside machine" only gave an indication of alcohol present I did not know that it could give
an exact #.
The screening device used by police is capable of displaying exact readings, but will display a letter code for people over the legal limit.
For a BAC between 0 and 0.049, it will display an exact reading.
For a BAC between 0.050 and 0.099 it will display an "A". This will result in a roadside suspension. Note that the legal limit is actually 0.08, so some drivers might actually be over the limit but get off with just a suspension.
For a BAC of 0.100 or more it will display an "F". This will result in the driver's arrest for over 80.
The device can also be put into calibration mode, where it will always display a full digital reading instead of a letter code, but that's strictly for calibration testing.
As for your second question, very hard to say how quickly the OP's body would process the alcohol since it depends on gender, weight, build, metabolism, etc. Probably take at least a good hour or more. Keep in mind though, the officer can use a different roadside device for a retest if requested. They don't need to take the person to the station for a full test.
The number used on the course is 15-20 mg/100ml alcohol elimination rate. I forgot where it comes from but the second test does not have to take place at the station. It can be with a second roadside device. So the answer is maybe depending on where the nearest instrument is. OPS
The number used on the course is 15-20 mg/100ml alcohol elimination rate.
I forgot where it comes from but the second test does not have to take place at the station. It can be with a second roadside device. So the answer is maybe depending on where the nearest instrument is.
Screening device, instrument used for second analysis
(6.1) The second analysis must be performed with a different approved screening device than was used in the analysis under subsection (2) or, if the police officer thinks it is preferable, with an instrument approved as suitable for the purpose of section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada). 2009, c. 5, s. 15 (8).
You cleared a couple of things up. Thank you. Is a BAC over .00 a criminal charge? I don't think that a second "roadside screening device" would hold up in a criminal court. It is a provincial offense maybe? Cheers Viper1
Stanton wrote:
It falls under section 48 of the HTA.
Screening device, instrument used for second analysis
(6.1) The second analysis must be performed with a different approved screening device than was used in the analysis under subsection (2) or, if the police officer thinks it is preferable, with an instrument approved as suitable for the purpose of section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada). 2009, c. 5, s. 15 (8).
You cleared a couple of things up. Thank you.
Is a BAC over .00 a criminal charge?
I don't think that a second "roadside screening device" would hold up in a criminal court.
It is a provincial offense maybe?
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
Not sure how old you are but they used to put out a scale chart from OPP. About 25 years ago. .015 was what they said is expelled per hour. Cheers Viper1
OPS Copper wrote:
The number used on the course is 15-20 mg/100ml alcohol elimination rate.
I forgot where it comes from but the second test does not have to take place at the station. It can be with a second roadside device. So the answer is maybe depending on where the nearest instrument is.
OPS
Not sure how old you are but they used to put out a scale chart from OPP. About 25 years ago.
.015 was what they said is expelled per hour.
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
1 6 oz glass of (pretty good) white wine. Why would i lie on an anonymous internet forum? That's the definition of a pointless endeavour
hwybear wrote:
And 1 glass of wine, a true legit size would be gone within one hour after the final sip, Not the 5 clear hours you advised us and 0.019 is also higher than one typical glass of wine
1 6 oz glass of (pretty good) white wine. Why would i lie on an anonymous internet forum? That's the definition of a pointless endeavour
It is simply not possible to register that reading 5 hours after a single glass of wine, whatever the quality. You've come to a forum with some extremely experienced police officers who've been dealing with alcohol related investigations for decades. People downplay the amount they drank all the time.
It is simply not possible to register that reading 5 hours after a single glass of wine, whatever the quality. You've come to a forum with some extremely experienced police officers who've been dealing with alcohol related investigations for decades. People downplay the amount they drank all the time.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
A common serving of wine (5oz) at common percentages (12%) will not give you a 0.019 nearly 5 hours later, period. It's not even close to being a reality. I don't even have to know your gender or weight to know it's not happening. If I went by the information given and had to estimate your attributes, I'd have to assume you're either male or female between the ages of 4-9. At that point I'd have to start wondering how you see over the dashboard.
soconfused wrote:
1 6 oz glass of (pretty good) white wine. Why would i lie on an anonymous internet forum? That's the definition of a pointless endeavour
A common serving of wine (5oz) at common percentages (12%) will not give you a 0.019 nearly 5 hours later, period. It's not even close to being a reality. I don't even have to know your gender or weight to know it's not happening. If I went by the information given and had to estimate your attributes, I'd have to assume you're either male or female between the ages of 4-9. At that point I'd have to start wondering how you see over the dashboard.
Could you please provide more details on exactly how you managed to win the case? IMO, the events that occur within the court (or beforehand with the prosecutor) are some of the most interesting bits of information available from this discussion forum. Thanks in advance.
soconfused wrote:
I fought the charges and won the case. No fines, suspensions, plea bargains or points.
Could you please provide more details on exactly how you managed to win the case? IMO, the events that occur within the court (or beforehand with the prosecutor) are some of the most interesting bits of information available from this discussion forum. Thanks in advance.
Could you please provide more details on exactly how you managed to win the case? IMO, the events that occur within the court (or beforehand with the prosecutor) are some of the most interesting bits of information available from this discussion forum. Thanks in advance. Sure. At the basic level, I won because I was honest with myself about what my situation was. There is no discretion in the law so I couldn't argue that I didn't have a bac over 0. So I had 2 options, argue for leniency (first offence, undue hardship, proactive behaviour) or work the system as much I could. I chose to do both, the leniency argument was my back up. I started by asking for a trial. Then I submitted a disclosure request (including video). I got only paper disclosure by the first trial so the case got adjourned. Leading to next date, I submitted a second request for the video. None came. At trial I had assumed it would pushed out again. My next availability meant that I would be eligible for 11b if we adjourned. However, at trial, I learned that the video was lost somewhere in the bowels of administration. The prosecutor wanted to withdraw charges but the cop asked for adjournment (serious charge). This is where I started to win. If I could give one piece of advice it's that you have to be confident and not scared. Most people get intimidated at the stand and just want to gtfo. You're fighting for yourself there, be strong. Prosecutor started by saying this was a first appearance, I butted in to correct (second appearance). The judge asked about the missing disclosure and was told that the cop had requested it months ago but it never came. They didn't know where it was and wanted to adjourn. Judge asked me if I agreed to adjournment. I said no, asked for withdrawal of charges. Was asked why and I went on a mini rant about how this was a second appearance, the process had already cost me 4 days of work and $300 bucks. I pointed out that I requested disclosure on 2 separate occasions and that my next availability was in April. Judge pointed out that through no one's fault, the process had been drawn out and commended me on being proactive with the disclosure requests and the effort I put in for it and then said the magic words "the request for adjournment is denied, all charges are withdrawn" Best part: walking back to my seat, the old OPP officer I was sitting next to says "good job buddy". I should point out that I am fully aware of the gravity of the charges and I am still gutted that I did that. However, self-preservation is essential when my income depends on driving. I regret driving that night, but I don't apologize for fighting the charge
hecubus wrote:
soconfused wrote:
I fought the charges and won the case. No fines, suspensions, plea bargains or points.
Could you please provide more details on exactly how you managed to win the case? IMO, the events that occur within the court (or beforehand with the prosecutor) are some of the most interesting bits of information available from this discussion forum. Thanks in advance.
Sure. At the basic level, I won because I was honest with myself about what my situation was. There is no discretion in the law so I couldn't argue that I didn't have a bac over 0. So I had 2 options, argue for leniency (first offence, undue hardship, proactive behaviour) or work the system as much I could.
I chose to do both, the leniency argument was my back up. I started by asking for a trial. Then I submitted a disclosure request (including video). I got only paper disclosure by the first trial so the case got adjourned. Leading to next date, I submitted a second request for the video. None came. At trial I had assumed it would pushed out again. My next availability meant that I would be eligible for 11b if we adjourned.
However, at trial, I learned that the video was lost somewhere in the bowels of administration. The prosecutor wanted to withdraw charges but the cop asked for adjournment (serious charge). This is where I started to win.
If I could give one piece of advice it's that you have to be confident and not scared. Most people get intimidated at the stand and just want to gtfo. You're fighting for yourself there, be strong.
Prosecutor started by saying this was a first appearance, I butted in to correct (second appearance). The judge asked about the missing disclosure and was told that the cop had requested it months ago but it never came. They didn't know where it was and wanted to adjourn. Judge asked me if I agreed to adjournment. I said no, asked for withdrawal of charges. Was asked why and I went on a mini rant about how this was a second appearance, the process had already cost me 4 days of work and $300 bucks. I pointed out that I requested disclosure on 2 separate occasions and that my next availability was in April.
Judge pointed out that through no one's fault, the process had been drawn out and commended me on being proactive with the disclosure requests and the effort I put in for it and then said the magic words "the request for adjournment is denied, all charges are withdrawn"
Best part: walking back to my seat, the old OPP officer I was sitting next to says "good job buddy".
I should point out that I am fully aware of the gravity of the charges and I am still gutted that I did that. However, self-preservation is essential when my income depends on driving. I regret driving that night, but I don't apologize for fighting the charge
Am really confused about this one, this morning i got a reduced speeding ticket (80km speed in 60 zone), and in the ticket the cop wrote 10km over the speeding limit.. and it has the 'R' code in it.. and the cop said i need to pay this and it doesn't have any points on it..
im fine with paying the ticket which is only 40 dollars but my biggest concern, will it show in my record ? or only tickets…
I got a ticket for driving with handheld device in Oct 2015 and I had requested for a trial. Yesterday I received the notice of trial (notice is dated 26-Jan-2017, court of trial is Newmarket, ON) and trial date is Mar 8, 2017. Today, I have sent in a registered request for disclosure (i.e on 29-Jan-2017).
Need some help here for the 1st time speeding ticket?
Sunday morning 12:10am when I was going home from work I was doing bit speeding on Gardiner. I was going with about 130km/h. I know its fast. I always take the same way and I know where the cops hide. They always hide entrance of the highways. If I will do speeding I always look my back and did look this time too. I took gardiner…
I just have a question in regards to the summons Under Part 1 I received for an rear end accident:
I was driving on the 2 lane road, and the car in front of me suddenly stopped, I had seen the car, and so I started to brake, however I heard noise from the back and looked int o the rear view mirror and saw a huge "truck" so I decided to go right, took the feet out of brakes but couldnt…
I have searched and I know the general rule is no, barring criminal charges or tresspassing. So let me use 2 specific issues I have.
1) I have some business in some area malls after hours. Once I have pulled into the mall lot on the way to the closest door I rarely stop at stop signs unless there is a car or person nearby. (i do not carelessly speed, i do show caution, just do not fully stop) Can…
In June at 401 London and Wellington I got hit twice, speeding which I didn't realize I was doing and cell phone. The Officer made me open my purse and show him my phone. I was going to meet a Rep of my Company in Kitchener, he called I answered. WRONG! The Officer wasn't even nice. My record was clean and he slapped me twice. I sat in the car and sobbed for 20 minutes as I was scared out of…
I wanted to "reply" elsewhere...but the more appropriate areas were "locked" to replies....so, here are a couple of questions...from a newbie to this site:
1. Who ARE you? (I'm a little edgy about conversing on a forum whose ownership is not stated anywhere on an "About" page") No offense intended whatsoever. Just like to know who I'm talking with/in front of.......your honor!
You are coming off of a highway exit and there are 3 lanes: right hand lane for right hand turn; middle lane for left AND right turn (but no straight thru since it is only a three-way intersection); and left lane for left hand turn. You are first in the middle lane, signalling to make a right.
CAN YOU make a right hand turn from the middle lane on a red if the traffic is clear?
Hey everyone first off I'd like to say great website, I have been reading and it is very useful
I'm posting today as I'd like to get some feedback on my situation and have a couple of questions. Please excuse the vagueness in some areas - I don't want my case to be identifiable given the small town.
So I was driving up north and was pulled over by an OPP SUV for doing 31 over. Cop drove past me,…
Hello! I'm under 16 currently and really want to drive. I know that section 37(1) says you have to be 16, but I've read that the HTA does not apply when you are in private property, so does that mean I can drive in a parking lot if I wanted to?
I was heading northbound on my bike downtown on friday. After the east/westbound lights went red and after a long pause I decided to get a head start and proceed before the light changed to green. About a block north of me an officer stepped out of an unmarked cruiser and pulled me over and gave me a $180 ticket. Now I see on this site that I should have been given points for it..but…
Got a ticket Saturday for insecure load. The officer was a real jerk and unfair. I had nothing hanging out the sides and the load wasn't that high. Just taking some junk to the dump. I was doing 40 on Ashley St in Foxboro, 4 ways on taking my time and nothing was going to fall out. I'm thinking about fighting it. Anyone experienced this before?
So I got convicted of a dui.. I have been riding my bike in the snow and taking the bus. I am a driving enthusiast and I will be going to the race track all summer but I NEED to drive something right now!
I have done lots of research and even an electric assisted bike that a 16 year old can drive legally on the road is not an option to someone with a dui suspension.
Hey this is my first ticket so as much information that people can provide will be appreciated. I was making the drive home going around 90kph(in a 80) behind what I knew was an undercover police car. The cop abruptly pulled to the side and pulled back in behind me to pull me over. Now I reduced my speed to below 80 when the cop pulled to the side but he claimed he had me clocked at 109kph and…
So I was heading home to today and I was in the left lane of the off ramp, some lady cut across her lane of traffic and across the off ramp median and hit the back side of my car! After a few meters of bumping (I was dazed and confused) I stopped the car.
I call 911 and was told to move the car to the shoulder.
Cop comes, interviews both of us, and lets the lady go! The cop proceeds to give…
An undercover cop, well not sure if he was even a cop to be honest, maybe a constable pulled me over after I passed him shortly after a construction zone. He asked me if I was in a rush and said that he was going 105 and I was going 120. It seems mostly from our conversation that he was pissed off that I passed him, because he never told me that I was speeding. None the less the ticket says…
I got this ticket last year in toronto and received court date recently.
Basically I parket on a street where there are marked spots for car parking but they were all faded with only the white edges showing. I assumed I was in the correct spot when I got out. I never noticed the fire hydrant in the bushes.
When I returned I saw the ticket and then noticed the fire hydrant and when I to the…
I would like to know if anybody could tell me what "V" stands for on the Code section of the Form 4. I think that it will be useful to understand what information is on this form in order to make a decision on what option we should chose.
I recently received a ticket for red light fail to stop under section 144 (18) of the Highway Traffic Act at the intersection of Dupont St. and Dufferin St. in Toronto with a set fine of $150 and total payable of $190. I think I entered the intersection on a yellow, however that is not the way the officer saw it. During the traffic stop the officer was polite bordering on friendly…
Got my first ticket last Thursday and I have a couple of questions. I was driving westbound on Moore St. (west of Bayview) and made a left onto a residential street at a 4-way stop sign. It was my first time driving through that area - was driving my girlfriend to a wisdom tooth surgery.
The police were set up to catch people, as that intersection had a no left turn sign from 7-9 am (buses…
