Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:28 am 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
Posts: 632
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Do these machines have the ability to detect the presence of blood in the breath sample? Perhaps I have such poor dental hygiene that my gum's bleed. I blow into a machine designed to test for alcohol levels in "breath". Is the breath sample not contaminated and inaccurate?

Alcohol concentrations in blood are much higher than in breath. So will this higher concentration of alcohol not result in a higher breath reading if blood were to be blown into the machine?


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 12hr vs 3 day Suspension
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:29 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
lawmen wrote:
hwybear wrote:
The instrument that is used at roadside is called an "Approved Screening Device" (ASD)most often is a Drager Alcotest 7410GLC. This instrument is approved by the Canadian Solictor General, and CFS (Centre of Forensic Science).

The Breathalyzer or Intoxilyzer are instruments used back at detachments/stations to get a actual number for how much alcohol is in a person blood.



If the law were properly implemented as it is written the police cannot administer a Breathalyzer or Intoxilyzer after the roadside screening device is used.

The criminal code is federal law. The highway traffic act is provincial law. The federal law trumps provincial law.

The HTA allow the officer to demand a Breathalyzer after a roadside screening is administered.

However, criminal code s. 258(2) articulates the results from the roadside screening test cannot be used for unauthorized purposes. It lists the valid authorized purposes in 258(a). Section 253(a) or (b) is not listed.

Therefore, the police are not authorized by any law to use the results from 254(2)(b) to force someone to submit to a Breathalyzer test under 254(3) in their attempt to charge them under s. 253.


Code s. 254(2)(b) deals with roadside screening. It states;

(b) to provide forthwith a sample of breath that, in the peace officer’s opinion, will enable a proper analysis to be made by means of an approved screening device and, if necessary, to accompany the peace officer for that purpose.

Unauthorized use or disclosure of results

258(2) Subject to subsections (3) and (4), no person shall use, disclose or allow the disclosure of the results of physical coordination tests under paragraph 254(2)(a), the results of an evaluation under subsection 254(3.1), the results of the analysis of a bodily substance taken under paragraph 254(2)(b), subsection 254(3), (3.3) or (3.4) or section 256 or with the consent of the person from whom it was taken after a request by a peace officer, or the results of the analysis of medical samples that are provided by consent and subsequently seized under a warrant, except

(a) in the course of an investigation of, or in a proceeding for, an offence under any of sections 220, 221, 236 and 249 to 255, an offence under Part I of the Aeronautics Act, or an offence under the Railway Safety Act in respect of a contravention of a rule or regulation made under that Act respecting the use of alcohol or a drug; or

(b) for the purpose of the administration or enforcement of the law of a province.


Is the valid section not listed in the "big numbers" above?

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:07 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Planet X
Ha! Good one. I missed the word "to."

_________________
Without Justice there's JUST US


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:53 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Bookm wrote:
Do these machines have the ability to detect the presence of blood in the breath sample? Perhaps I have such poor dental hygiene that my gum's bleed. I blow into a machine designed to test for alcohol levels in "breath". Is the breath sample not contaminated and inaccurate?

Alcohol concentrations in blood are much higher than in breath. So will this higher concentration of alcohol not result in a higher breath reading if blood were to be blown into the machine?


Breath instruments obtain their readings from air not liquid.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:51 am 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
Posts: 632
Location: Stratford, Ontario
From Wiki:

Mouth alcohol

One of the most common causes of falsely high breathalyzer readings is the existence of mouth alcohol. In analyzing a subject's breath sample, the breathalyzer's internal computer is making the assumption that the alcohol in the breath sample came from alveolar air—that is, air exhaled from deep within the lungs. However, alcohol may have come from the mouth, throat or stomach for a number of reasons.
The problem with mouth alcohol being analyzed by the breathalyzer is that it was not absorbed through the stomach and intestines and passed through the blood to the lungs. In other words, the machine's computer is mistakenly applying the "partition ratio" and multiplying the result. Consequently, a very tiny amount of alcohol from the mouth, throat or stomach can have a significant impact on the breath alcohol reading.


I would conclude that blood could be blown into the machine just as easily as a belch.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:44 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
You are not understanding "mouth alcohol affect".

Mouth alcohol is residual alcohol in the mouth. This is caused by the last "swig" of beer and then blowing directly into the instrument, where the alcohol is fresh in the mouth, therefore a false/high reading is obtained.

Same can be done with mouth wash, contains alcohol, swish that around, spit it out and the alcohol in the mouthwash will make a person FAIL the test.

This is why we have to determine the last consumption of alcohol, driving time from a bar, open beer in vehicle. We either wait 15minutes if open alcohol is found in the vehicle, or determine by travelling time from where the person was. Waiting 15 minutes eliminates the mouth alcohol affect and therefore a true alcohol reading from lung air will be obtained!

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:00 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
Posts: 632
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Your right! I'm not...

In your reply you used beer and mouthwash as examples. Both these are not pure alcohol. They are mixed with water. If "fresh" in the mouth, the alcohol component contaminates the breathalyzer and results in a higher reading than a "deep lung" exhalation. If a suspect is bleeding in his mouth, his blood is constantly providing a "fresh" supply of alcohol to his mouth, the same as the mouthwash would. I don't see how this wouldn't affect the machine.

The only reason I bring this up is because I once watched a defense lawyer ask an officer on the stand if he checked for blood before conducting any tests. The officer said, "No". During the judges ruling, he said he was intrigued by the lawyers questioning, but since he didn't follow it up with any arguments during closing, he chose not to include this portion of the questioning in his deliberations. (= guilty)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:31 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Bookm wrote:
If a suspect is bleeding in his mouth, his blood is constantly providing a "fresh" supply of alcohol to his mouth, the same as the mouthwash would. I don't see how this wouldn't affect the machine.


Go out on a limb here.....that the alcohol in the blood is at the same concentration as the air from the lungs, as it is already processed from the stomach into the bloodstream. As comparing alcohol coming directly into the body (ie alcoholic beverage) which has yet to be processed by the body.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:37 am 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
Posts: 632
Location: Stratford, Ontario
What would I do without Google?!

There's also a variety of products found in the environment that can lead to erroneous BAC results with breathalyzers. Some these products include substances or compounds found in cleaning fluids, celluloid, gasoline, paint removers, and in lacquers. Other common substances that can result in false BAC levels are alcohol, vomit, or blood in the person's mouth. False BAC readings can also be caused from electrical interference, dirt, smoke, cell phones, police radios, moisture, and tobacco smoke.
http://www.alcohol-test-info.comAlcohol_Blood_Tests_vs_Breathalyzers.html


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:31 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Bookm wrote:
What would I do without Google?!


Sit and twiddle your thumbs?

But since you have google it is the absolute answer to all :D

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Suspension

trouble

2

454

Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:43 am

jsherk View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Driving under suspension

c3kan

8

3096

Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:59 pm

OTTLegal View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Driving while under suspension

Oobie

14

1156

Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:23 pm

Oobie View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Driving while under suspension

Rockyca

1

725

Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:11 am

OTTLegal View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Drive Under Suspension 53

lucky777

3

2172

Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:53 pm

hwybear View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. driving while under suspension

ccricket

8

2803

Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:33 am

OTTLegal View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Driving while under suspension

terror96

1

3010

Sun May 02, 2010 8:14 pm

OTTLegal View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. notification of suspension

bd88

4

3105

Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:02 pm

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Driving While Under Suspension

Shaan

13

2381

Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:58 pm

Simon Borys View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Possible licence suspension

dgilbert

4

766

Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:50 pm

dgilbert View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Accident and suspension

plumber crack

5

1036

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:58 am

Squishy View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Driving Under suspension

ovation171

3

1286

Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:38 pm

Radar Identified View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.