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Disobey Stop Sign and Not signing Ownership - Help Please!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:06 pm 
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I am new to this website. Thanks God for finding this great site. I am writing on my friend's behalf who speaks little English. Here are the facts:

"At about 6:00 p.m., I was on my way leaving home to pick up my daughter who has just finished her volunteer work at a neighbouring hospital. I was going northbound on Kersey Cres. (Richmond Hill). Soon after the Yongehurst Road intersection, I was signalled to stop by a police car. I pulled over. A police officer approached my car so I turned off the engine and rolled down the window. He told me that I have run the stop sign at Yongehurst. I told him that I did stop. Kersey Crescent is in my neighbourhood and is a usual route for me. I am familiar with and aware of all the stop signs enroute. I obtained my driver's license in 1997 and I have been a very cautious driver as I am a stay-home mother of 3 young children aging 10, 12 and 18. That evening was rainy and foggy. I deliberately turned on the fog lights after stopping at the stop sign at Yongehurst as the visibility was low. The police officer then asked me for my driver's licence. I was rather nervous as I have never been stopped by a police officer before. I was pulling out all identification cards and insurance policy slip from my wallet. When he saw my ownership permit, he asked to inspect it. Then he said that it was not signed. I told him that it was just a copy in my wallet, the original was in the trunk if he allowed me to show him. The police officer ignored me, took all my identifications and returned to his car. At about 6:20 p.m., the police officer gave me 2 tickets for failing to obey a stop sign and failing to sign the ownership permit in ink. He then returned all my identifications to me and explained briefly about paying the fines."

Here are my questions:

1. What are my friend's chances at trial?
2. If at trial, how should I argue this case?

Thanks in advance for all replies.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:24 pm 
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Location: Stratford, Ontario
The cop wrote two tickets because he knows the Crown will likely offer to drop one for a guilty plea on the other.

The ownership one would likely be dropped if she were to show the Crown that the original IS signed. But if it were me, I'd try to negotiate a guilty plea on the ownership and have the stop sign dropped.

Someone should call her insurance company to see what their policy is on tickets. Some will raise rates based on just one minor ticket. Others will let a few go before raising rates.

The reason I would try hard to have the stop sign dropped is, 1) it's her word against the officer = officer wins, and 2) the crown will use previous convictions when arguing his case on any FUTURE tickets she may get. It's best to keep her record clear of "moving violations" if at all possible.


Last edited by Bookm on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Make sure you request an interpretor when you request a trial. You have a right to one under s. 14 of the Charter.

Also print off the weather report for that day to use at trial. If there was low visibility, the less likely the cop was able to see you stop. And your version of events will be more credible.

And the fact that you had the ownership slip in the trunk but your were not allowed to get it suggests the behavior of the officer at roadside was less than stellar. This also affects his credibility with dealing with non-English speaking citizens.

You've got excellent chances of winning both charges.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:55 pm 
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Couple of questions to ask, just to add to what TC and Bookm are saying... was the officer behind your friend or did the officer wave your friend over (meaning the officer was standing at the side of the road)?

The "failure to sign ownership in ink" charge should be quashed fairly easily. If your friend offered to present the officer with the original, signed copy, the officer had no valid reason to refuse to see it. Also, in order to put together a solid defence for your friend, you are going to need to obtain the evidence against your friend (such as the officer's notes). This website explains how to do it:

http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/friends.php

Make sure that, after you've arranged the trial, to get disclosure (described at ticketcombat's website), and also, in your disclosure request, ask for an explanation and clarification of the charge.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:30 pm 
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My friend has requested for disclosure last week. No disclosure has been received so far. The trial date is June 30. The cop was most likely hiding in a police car on Yongehust Rd., intersecting Kersey Cres. My friend was driving northbound on Kersey. She did not see any cars behind her except a SUV, which she noticed from the mirror when she stopped at the stop sign located on Kersey at Yongehurst. He signalled her to stop on Kersey.

Also kept a newspaper of that date showing the weather. I have also checked the weather records indicating that the visibility was about 1km during the time when the tickets were issued.

BTW, this is a rescheduled trial. The first trial was in Jan. The Crown refused my friend to stand the trail for she has not requested for an interpreter then. The cop did not show up that time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:06 am 
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Went to the court today. No disclosure has been provided. Decided to proceed with the trial rather than asking for an adjournment as the cop was not as sight. However, the cop showed up just right before the trial. An interpreter has been assigned by the Court as well. The Crown offered to drop the fail to obey the stop sign charge in exchange for pleading guilty of the charge for failing to sign the ownership permit in ink. Paid $80 in total for the fine just for the peace of mind.

Case closed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:06 pm 
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That is probably the second-best outcome of the case. Good work!

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"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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