I received a ticket for disobeying a stop sign. I don't drive along this street very often and there has been a lot of construction going on in the area along with the building of a new school. I had just left my son's school so I was very diligent in making sure I was obeying the speed limit. When I raised my head from my dashboard I saw out of the corner of my eye a NEW stop sign that was also difficult to see as it was slightly covered in some snow. The stop sign was also held up with sand bags and tilted slightly to the right! To me it seemed like a fairly new stop sign. Unfortunately, I had already passed the sign but I did stop mid-way to look around for traffic and wouldn't you know it a cop was parked right there! I of course was pulled over and ticketed. I mentioned to the cop that this was a new stop sign and had not been there before. He wasn't clear on when the sign was posted "since the construction" but told me I had to get charged for not stopping! After the incident I took pictures of the area and noticed that the warning for the new stop sign had fallen down, probably from the windy night before and could not be seen from the direction I was driving. It was not posted permanently on a hydro pole or fixed pole but was held up with sand bags. I guess that's why it fell! However, the warning signs facing the opposite way were posted clearly and correctly on a hydro pole. Does anyone know of any rules regarding the posting of warning "new stop sign ahead" when the sign isn't where it should be? I feel that this was very unfair to me. I am a good driver with a clean driving record and now I may have to face 3 demerit points and a huge fine..is there anyway to argue this point and win? Please help!!!!! I am so angry about this! :x
I received a ticket for disobeying a stop sign. I don't drive along this street very often and there has been a lot of construction going on in the area along with the building of a new school. I had just left my son's school so I was very diligent in making sure I was obeying the speed limit. When I raised my head from my dashboard I saw out of the corner of my eye a NEW stop sign that was also difficult to see as it was slightly covered in some snow. The stop sign was also held up with sand bags and tilted slightly to the right! To me it seemed like a fairly new stop sign. Unfortunately, I had already passed the sign but I did stop mid-way to look around for traffic and wouldn't you know it a cop was parked right there! I of course was pulled over and ticketed. I mentioned to the cop that this was a new stop sign and had not been there before. He wasn't clear on when the sign was posted "since the construction" but told me I had to get charged for not stopping!
After the incident I took pictures of the area and noticed that the warning for the new stop sign had fallen down, probably from the windy night before and could not be seen from the direction I was driving. It was not posted permanently on a hydro pole or fixed pole but was held up with sand bags. I guess that's why it fell! However, the warning signs facing the opposite way were posted clearly and correctly on a hydro pole.
Does anyone know of any rules regarding the posting of warning "new stop sign ahead" when the sign isn't where it should be? I feel that this was very unfair to me. I am a good driver with a clean driving record and now I may have to face 3 demerit points and a huge fine..is there anyway to argue this point and win?
I can't find anything that says a "NEW" warning has to be erected for every new sign. Could be just a courtesy, or could be part of some act that I haven't searched yet. However, you mention that it was tilted to the right. The left edge of the stop sign cannot be more than 4 m away from the edge of the roadway (a shoulder is not part of the roadway, if that street has one). The sign also has to be visible from 60 m away, and between 1.5 m to 15 m away from the intersecting roadway. Either way, a speedometer check should require no head movement - just a quick glance that takes a fraction of a second. The missed stop sign could just as easily have been a child running across the street.
I can't find anything that says a "NEW" warning has to be erected for every new sign. Could be just a courtesy, or could be part of some act that I haven't searched yet.
However, you mention that it was tilted to the right. The left edge of the stop sign cannot be more than 4 m away from the edge of the roadway (a shoulder is not part of the roadway, if that street has one). The sign also has to be visible from 60 m away, and between 1.5 m to 15 m away from the intersecting roadway.
Either way, a speedometer check should require no head movement - just a quick glance that takes a fraction of a second. The missed stop sign could just as easily have been a child running across the street.
No. I'd bet large that if the stop sign had run across the road, it would have been seen and stopped for, just as a child would have. Be sure to read the pertinent section of the HTA and see if it helps your case: 136. (1) Every driver or street car operator approaching a stop sign at an intersection, (a) shall stop his or her vehicle or street car at a marked stop line or, if none, then immediately before entering the nearest crosswalk or, if none, then immediately before entering the intersection; and (b) shall yield the right of way to traffic in the intersection or approaching the intersection on another highway so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard and, having so yielded the right of way, may proceed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 136 (1). Here's the requirements for sign placement: Amended to O. Reg. 246/03 SIGNS 6. (1) A stop sign erected before August 1, 1993 shall, (a) be octagonal in shape, not less than 60 centimetres in height and width and bear the word "stop" in white retro-reflective letters not less than 20 centimetres in height on a background of red retro-reflective material; or (b) be octagonal in shape, not less than 60 centimetres in height and width and bear the words "stop" and "arrªt" in white retro-reflective letters on a background of red retro-reflective material. (2) A stop sign erected on or after August 1, 1993 shall be as described in clause (1) (a) and illustrated in the following Figure: (3) On or after August 1, 2008, no stop sign shall be valid except as described and illustrated in subsection (2). O. Reg. 444/93, s. 2. 7. A stop sign shall be erected on the right side of the highway, facing approaching traffic, at a point not less than 1.5 metres and not more than 15 metres from the intersecting roadway. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 615, s. 7. 8. (1) Where a stop sign is erected within a city, town, village, police village or built-up area, the left edge of the sign shall be not more than 2 metres from the roadway.
No. I'd bet large that if the stop sign had run across the road, it would have been seen and stopped for, just as a child would have.
Be sure to read the pertinent section of the HTA and see if it helps your case:
136. (1) Every driver or street car operator approaching a stop sign at an intersection,
(a) shall stop his or her vehicle or street car at a marked stop line or, if none, then immediately before entering the nearest crosswalk or, if none, then immediately before entering the intersection; and
(b) shall yield the right of way to traffic in the intersection or approaching the intersection on another highway so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard and, having so yielded the right of way, may proceed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 136 (1).
Here's the requirements for sign placement:
Amended to O. Reg. 246/03
SIGNS
6. (1) A stop sign erected before August 1, 1993 shall,
(a) be octagonal in shape, not less than 60 centimetres in height and width and bear the word "stop" in white retro-reflective letters not less than 20 centimetres in height on a background of red retro-reflective material; or
(b) be octagonal in shape, not less than 60 centimetres in height and width and bear the words "stop" and "arrªt" in white retro-reflective letters on a background of red retro-reflective material.
(2) A stop sign erected on or after August 1, 1993 shall be as described in clause (1) (a) and illustrated in the following Figure:
(3) On or after August 1, 2008, no stop sign shall be valid except as described and illustrated in subsection (2). O. Reg. 444/93, s. 2.
7. A stop sign shall be erected on the right side of the highway, facing approaching traffic, at a point not less than 1.5 metres and not more than 15 metres from the intersecting roadway. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 615, s. 7.
8. (1) Where a stop sign is erected within a city, town, village, police village or built-up area, the left edge of the sign shall be not more than 2 metres from the roadway.
Bookm what's O. Reg 246/03? Is that just an older version of the current reg? O. Reg 615 covers stop signs. safedriver333, it sounds like you have more than enough to dispute this charge. Like Squishy I couldn't find anything requiring a new sign ahead warning. Alberta has documentation (on page 9) here: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Co ... p_Sign.pdf Use that to show what prudent sign erection should be like. So basically, request a trial, request disclosure and specifically ask for information about the stop sign: when was it erected, a copy of the by-law for it's creation, etc. You will argue that the sign was not placed or maintained according to the regulation. You can quote s. 137 of the HTA: "every sign so erected shall comply with the regulations of the Ministry". And as suggested above, get out your measuring tape and make sure the sign is not proper and by how much. Make three measurements: visibility from 60m away, height of sign and placement (distance from edge and from intersection).
Bookm what's O. Reg 246/03? Is that just an older version of the current reg?
safedriver333, it sounds like you have more than enough to dispute this charge. Like Squishy I couldn't find anything requiring a new sign ahead warning. Alberta has documentation (on page 9) here: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Co ... p_Sign.pdf
Use that to show what prudent sign erection should be like.
So basically, request a trial, request disclosure and specifically ask for information about the stop sign: when was it erected, a copy of the by-law for it's creation, etc.
You will argue that the sign was not placed or maintained according to the regulation. You can quote s. 137 of the HTA: "every sign so erected shall comply with the regulations of the Ministry".
And as suggested above, get out your measuring tape and make sure the sign is not proper and by how much. Make three measurements: visibility from 60m away, height of sign and placement (distance from edge and from intersection).
think the "new" is just a courtesy for immediate residents of that street. What would be the difference if any of us drove to Thunder Bay and we did not see a stop sign that had been there for 10years?
think the "new" is just a courtesy for immediate residents of that street.
What would be the difference if any of us drove to Thunder Bay and we did not see a stop sign that had been there for 10years?
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
It should be more than a courtesy, it becomes a safety issue. I remember when the "new" stop sign was put on my connecting street. There are two intersections to drive through before turning on my street. I must have driven through that stretch at least 10,000 times during my daily commute. Then one day BAM there's a new stop sign and I slam on my brakes. A couple of weeks later they put the "NEW" stop sign up to warn people. Must've been a lot of complaints. Yes everyone should be paying careful attention on the road. But when you drive the same route every day, you prioritize. You're looking for kids, cars and other movement. You don't expect it. Or put it another way. Have you ever walked into furniture in your house? The only thing moving is you. And your eyes were not closed. You just didn't expect it.
hwybear wrote:
think the "new" is just a courtesy for immediate residents of that street.
What would be the difference if any of us drove to Thunder Bay and we did not see a stop sign that had been there for 10years?
It should be more than a courtesy, it becomes a safety issue.
I remember when the "new" stop sign was put on my connecting street. There are two intersections to drive through before turning on my street. I must have driven through that stretch at least 10,000 times during my daily commute. Then one day BAM there's a new stop sign and I slam on my brakes. A couple of weeks later they put the "NEW" stop sign up to warn people. Must've been a lot of complaints.
Yes everyone should be paying careful attention on the road. But when you drive the same route every day, you prioritize. You're looking for kids, cars and other movement. You don't expect it.
Or put it another way. Have you ever walked into furniture in your house? The only thing moving is you. And your eyes were not closed. You just didn't expect it.
Am really confused about this one, this morning i got a reduced speeding ticket (80km speed in 60 zone), and in the ticket the cop wrote 10km over the speeding limit.. and it has the 'R' code in it.. and the cop said i need to pay this and it doesn't have any points on it..
im fine with paying the ticket which is only 40 dollars but my biggest concern, will it show in my record ? or only tickets…
I got a ticket for driving with handheld device in Oct 2015 and I had requested for a trial. Yesterday I received the notice of trial (notice is dated 26-Jan-2017, court of trial is Newmarket, ON) and trial date is Mar 8, 2017. Today, I have sent in a registered request for disclosure (i.e on 29-Jan-2017).
Need some help here for the 1st time speeding ticket?
Sunday morning 12:10am when I was going home from work I was doing bit speeding on Gardiner. I was going with about 130km/h. I know its fast. I always take the same way and I know where the cops hide. They always hide entrance of the highways. If I will do speeding I always look my back and did look this time too. I took gardiner…
I just have a question in regards to the summons Under Part 1 I received for an rear end accident:
I was driving on the 2 lane road, and the car in front of me suddenly stopped, I had seen the car, and so I started to brake, however I heard noise from the back and looked int o the rear view mirror and saw a huge "truck" so I decided to go right, took the feet out of brakes but couldnt…
I have searched and I know the general rule is no, barring criminal charges or tresspassing. So let me use 2 specific issues I have.
1) I have some business in some area malls after hours. Once I have pulled into the mall lot on the way to the closest door I rarely stop at stop signs unless there is a car or person nearby. (i do not carelessly speed, i do show caution, just do not fully stop) Can…
In June at 401 London and Wellington I got hit twice, speeding which I didn't realize I was doing and cell phone. The Officer made me open my purse and show him my phone. I was going to meet a Rep of my Company in Kitchener, he called I answered. WRONG! The Officer wasn't even nice. My record was clean and he slapped me twice. I sat in the car and sobbed for 20 minutes as I was scared out of…
I wanted to "reply" elsewhere...but the more appropriate areas were "locked" to replies....so, here are a couple of questions...from a newbie to this site:
1. Who ARE you? (I'm a little edgy about conversing on a forum whose ownership is not stated anywhere on an "About" page") No offense intended whatsoever. Just like to know who I'm talking with/in front of.......your honor!
You are coming off of a highway exit and there are 3 lanes: right hand lane for right hand turn; middle lane for left AND right turn (but no straight thru since it is only a three-way intersection); and left lane for left hand turn. You are first in the middle lane, signalling to make a right.
CAN YOU make a right hand turn from the middle lane on a red if the traffic is clear?
Hey everyone first off I'd like to say great website, I have been reading and it is very useful
I'm posting today as I'd like to get some feedback on my situation and have a couple of questions. Please excuse the vagueness in some areas - I don't want my case to be identifiable given the small town.
So I was driving up north and was pulled over by an OPP SUV for doing 31 over. Cop drove past me,…
Hello! I'm under 16 currently and really want to drive. I know that section 37(1) says you have to be 16, but I've read that the HTA does not apply when you are in private property, so does that mean I can drive in a parking lot if I wanted to?
I was heading northbound on my bike downtown on friday. After the east/westbound lights went red and after a long pause I decided to get a head start and proceed before the light changed to green. About a block north of me an officer stepped out of an unmarked cruiser and pulled me over and gave me a $180 ticket. Now I see on this site that I should have been given points for it..but…
Got a ticket Saturday for insecure load. The officer was a real jerk and unfair. I had nothing hanging out the sides and the load wasn't that high. Just taking some junk to the dump. I was doing 40 on Ashley St in Foxboro, 4 ways on taking my time and nothing was going to fall out. I'm thinking about fighting it. Anyone experienced this before?
So I got convicted of a dui.. I have been riding my bike in the snow and taking the bus. I am a driving enthusiast and I will be going to the race track all summer but I NEED to drive something right now!
I have done lots of research and even an electric assisted bike that a 16 year old can drive legally on the road is not an option to someone with a dui suspension.
Hey this is my first ticket so as much information that people can provide will be appreciated. I was making the drive home going around 90kph(in a 80) behind what I knew was an undercover police car. The cop abruptly pulled to the side and pulled back in behind me to pull me over. Now I reduced my speed to below 80 when the cop pulled to the side but he claimed he had me clocked at 109kph and…
So I was heading home to today and I was in the left lane of the off ramp, some lady cut across her lane of traffic and across the off ramp median and hit the back side of my car! After a few meters of bumping (I was dazed and confused) I stopped the car.
I call 911 and was told to move the car to the shoulder.
Cop comes, interviews both of us, and lets the lady go! The cop proceeds to give…
An undercover cop, well not sure if he was even a cop to be honest, maybe a constable pulled me over after I passed him shortly after a construction zone. He asked me if I was in a rush and said that he was going 105 and I was going 120. It seems mostly from our conversation that he was pissed off that I passed him, because he never told me that I was speeding. None the less the ticket says…
I got this ticket last year in toronto and received court date recently.
Basically I parket on a street where there are marked spots for car parking but they were all faded with only the white edges showing. I assumed I was in the correct spot when I got out. I never noticed the fire hydrant in the bushes.
When I returned I saw the ticket and then noticed the fire hydrant and when I to the…
I would like to know if anybody could tell me what "V" stands for on the Code section of the Form 4. I think that it will be useful to understand what information is on this form in order to make a decision on what option we should chose.
I recently received a ticket for red light fail to stop under section 144 (18) of the Highway Traffic Act at the intersection of Dupont St. and Dufferin St. in Toronto with a set fine of $150 and total payable of $190. I think I entered the intersection on a yellow, however that is not the way the officer saw it. During the traffic stop the officer was polite bordering on friendly…
Got my first ticket last Thursday and I have a couple of questions. I was driving westbound on Moore St. (west of Bayview) and made a left onto a residential street at a 4-way stop sign. It was my first time driving through that area - was driving my girlfriend to a wisdom tooth surgery.
The police were set up to catch people, as that intersection had a no left turn sign from 7-9 am (buses…
