124km/hr in an 80km/hr zone...

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untilproven
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124km/hr in an 80km/hr zone...

by: untilproven on
Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:36 pm

... two cars pulled over, we (my wife and 7 month old boy) were passing a truck in the passing lane, first car passed me and I pulled out behind him. Crested a hill while on a curve, pass the truck and move back into the driving lane. Police officer shows up behind and pulls us both over. Gave me a ticket saying I was following the car in front doing 124km/hr.

Sent request for disclosure, Prosecutor called, had to call him back and he said he wasn't required to send me the manuals for the radar/lidar, and that I could make an appointment to see them at a police office.

Then he asked me the officer number, which he named after confirming and identified the vehicle he normally drives. Asked where I was pulled over so I told him, then proceeded to explain my side of the story. He said, ah, and asked me if my court date was on the notice of trial, which I confirmed and he said, see you then.

Is he required to give me the manuals? He said he would identify the equipment.

I have photographs (taken by me) of the hill and the spot where the officer was hiding. Also with views from the hiding spot.

The only things I can think of to build my case is this:

It was a hill and a curve, so at no point were we on the same vector for lidar.

There were two cars pulled over, both grey, so how could he have been able to identify which car was speeding.

Additionally, we were passing a truck, three vehicles bunched together.

The distance from the crest of the hill to the hiding spot is maybe 150-200m, I've still yet to measure.

Not sure what else I can do, I'm not interested in a reduction, nothing short of an acquittal, stay, or not-guilty verdict will do.

We had a GPS in the car that also measures speed, which was pointed at my wife in the passenger seat, and she can confirm that we never sped at any point, will an affidavit suffice?

What else do I need to do?

BTW, this site is great!
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by: Reflections on
Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:46 pm

Is he required to give me the manuals? He said he would identify the equipment.

--The officers notes should identify what was used. And the only thing required is that you have access to the manuals, not manuals of your own.

I have photographs (taken by me) of the hill and the spot where the officer was hiding. Also with views from the hiding spot.

The only things I can think of to build my case is this:

It was a hill and a curve, so at no point were we on the same vector for lidar.

There were two cars pulled over, both grey, so how could he have been able to identify which car was speeding.

--The officer would have to prove his reading was obtained from your car

Additionally, we were passing a truck, three vehicles bunched together.


The distance from the crest of the hill to the hiding spot is maybe 150-200m, I've still yet to measure.

--Not a huge factor but it could cloud the officers "tracking history"... That will be in the manual

Not sure what else I can do, I'm not interested in a reduction, nothing short of an acquittal, stay, or not-guilty verdict will do.

We had a GPS in the car that also measures speed, which was pointed at my wife in the passenger seat, and she can confirm that we never sped at any point, will an affidavit suffice?

--Wife = Witness but not a good one. The court views her as wanting to help her husband....
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
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by: untilproven on
Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:26 pm

So I've received my disclosure (not surprisingly a week before my court date). Notes typed:

1015 hrs. Test genesis 09-300

1120 hrs.

Two vehicles north bound Hwy 15. Leo Lake Rd N, entering passing lane at Burnt Hills Rd.
Front antenna, approach mode.
124 lead vehicle, 124 locked, 123, 124.
Passing slower van.
Next vehicle, two lengths off him was silver infinity.
First black lexus.
Infinity on its tail, no gain or losing ground.
Black lexus moves to lane 2 in front of blue van.
Slows to approximately 116, grey infinity matches speed falls in behind.
Stopped both vehicles.
Lexus
(omitted other driver details, surprised they gave them to me)
Advised that the infinity had been behind him for some while, using him as a rabbit.
Infinity
(my driver details)
Warned expired insurance card 2007, change address on plates.
Stated he had cruise on at 100, that he was going to cottage and baby was fussy.

1740 hrs. Retest Genesis 09-300
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by: untilproven on
Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:59 pm

Anyone got any suggestions? The notes do not indicate that my vehicle was radar'd.
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by: Reflections on
Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:25 am

124 lead vehicle, 124 locked, 123, 124.
Passing slower van.
Next vehicle, two lengths off him was silver infinity.
First black lexus.
Infinity on its tail, no gain or losing ground.
The officer was thourough and this would be tough to beat heads up. A plea bargin could be in your future.

The bold text tells me that the officer had a speed reference and witnessed everything.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
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by: Traffic Law on
Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:18 am

As part of tracking history for this radar set (i assume it is genesis directional) correlation between officer's speedometer and radar reading must be present. I don't see it in your disclosure. That may be your way out.
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untilproven
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by: untilproven on
Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:50 pm

So it doesn't matter that he didn't use his radar to measure my speed?

Or that he doesn't have a device to measure the distance between the other vehicle and mine?
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by: Reflections on
Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:15 pm

untilproven wrote:So it doesn't matter that he didn't use his radar to measure my speed? ---He had a reference and with what he has written down, I would find you guilty in court.
Or that he doesn't have a device to measure the distance between the other vehicle and mine? --Irrelevent
If you wish to beat this you'll have to look at a different angle.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
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untilproven
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by: untilproven on
Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:15 pm

Sorry, I just don't see how it's irrelevant. The officer can 'guess' that I wasn't gaining or losing ground?

Could someone explain 'tracking history'?
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by: pvotrainer on
Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:30 pm

the officer's evidence says he has the speed of the vehicle ahead of you. he then states that your speed matched his. He bases this on describing you "pacing" him, following at a set distance without changing. Pacing is a well acceptted method of determining speed, whether following you or watching you follow someone. Plea
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