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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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108km in a 80km zone advice plz
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Hi all,

I'll try to keep this brief.
Driving my dads truck which is from Cali, and just helping my mom pick up some funiture, driving from waterloo to guelph.

Anyways, heading down St. charles street before the town of Woolwich, and there are a lot of rolling hills, so I was coming down one side, and a officer coming in the other direction proceeds to turn around, and pull me over.
I was doing about 100kmh in an 80kmh zone, and just on the down hills the truck had increased speed,so he said he got me 108kmh. I was loaded with funiture.

To be clear, there was only myself, another car, coming in the opposite direction, and the cop behind him. It was a clear day, with a high tailwind.
It was just before the town of Woolwich, so its is rural area.

During the stop he asked for License, which mine is valid photo ID only, because I just finised my Z test last week, so my real license is TEMP, on a paper, which he did not mention to see or look at. BTW my license is from Ontario.

Also, my ownership is attached to my windshield, because when you buy a new vehicle in california it takes time for them to mail you the real ownership, so the dealer prints out a copy of the sale, and it stays on your windshield.
He did not look at this.

I am currently getting my AZ license, and I'm a safe driver. I won't say that I don't speed but this is ridiculous. Mind you it is the end of May, so I assume this was just to meet his quota.

I took pictures of the area, and of the signed speed limits, and the hills.
I also made sure I pulled over in a safe place, because while I have respect, for law enforcement, I don't always agree with their discresion.
I have friends, and family, that are cops, and was looking to become one myself.

Now I'm going to fight this because I'm 22, and own 2 sports cars(that I have never been ticketed in )I don't my insurance to go up, and personally, this had nothing to do with safety, it was purely a cash grab. IMO
I tried not to say anything to incriminate myself, and only asked/ told him it was a clear day and no traffic. Does that incriminate myself?
He didn't ask if I know what I did, and only said i caught you 108 in a 80,
When he came back with the ticket, he said you can look at the radar if you want. Almost like he was trying to get, something out of me, and again almost saying he was out looking to meet his quota.

Now, I'm a long time reader of posts on this site, and I know I have to request discloser, and a trail date.

I'm just looking for some advice of how to talk with the prosecutor, and JP, the either get this dropped completely. I don't want a conviction on my record.

Now I know some of you will say "you were speeding, you got caught, so live with it", but that is not the reason I am here and its none productive, so please keep those comments to yourself.
I am here because I believe that again this is purely a cash grab, and had nothing to do with safety of the road, and again I don't want a conviction.

Thank you all for your help in advance.


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 4:26 pm 
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jumpmanx2323 wrote:
I'm just looking for some advice of how to talk with the prosecutor, and JP, the either get this dropped completely. I don't want a conviction on my record.


Well... age 22 and no tickets as of yet... see if the officer shows up for trial. In rural areas, they usually do. In any case, see if the Crown gives you proper disclosure (notes, manual, anything else that is relevant and would help your defence). If there's something glaring and obvious in the notes (e.g. no test, no tracking history, etc) then you should go for a trial.

Beyond that, on the day of trial, dress for the occasion. You probably already know that, but enough people show up looking like Joe S*** the Ragman that it's worthwhile mentioning. Of course, the second they show up looking like that, it's all downhill from there.

So... go check in with the Prosecutor. The Prosecutor will probably offer you a deal before the trial starts, or you could do a First Attendance meeting, if they offer it. You can talk about the options. You may even say something like "I'm willing to pay for a more expensive municipal infraction" (if you are). That might work. Municipal infractions won't result in an insurance increase. They'll probably offer you speeding 15 over to start with. As for negotiating... it's all a matter of approaching it in a respectful manner. Tell them that you really want to save everyone's time and resolve it in a mutually beneficial manner. It's all common sense, really.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: 108km in a 80km zone advice plz
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 5:20 pm 
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jumpmanx2323 wrote:
Now I'm going to fight this because I'm 22, and own 2 sports cars(that I have never been ticketed in )I don't my insurance to go up, and personally, this had nothing to do with safety, it was purely a cash grab. IMO.


Cash Grab is where you have no choice but to pay (taxes). This you had a choice of driving the speed limit and :shock: nothing to pay at all

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: 108km in a 80km zone advice plz
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:29 pm 
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Location: Oshawa, Ontario
hwybear wrote:
jumpmanx2323 wrote:
Now I'm going to fight this because I'm 22, and own 2 sports cars(that I have never been ticketed in )I don't my insurance to go up, and personally, this had nothing to do with safety, it was purely a cash grab. IMO.


Cash Grab is where you have no choice but to pay (taxes). This you had a choice of driving the speed limit and :shock: nothing to pay at all


jumpmanx2323 wrote:
Now I know some of you will say "you were speeding, you got caught, so live with it", but that is not the reason I am here and its none productive


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:59 pm 
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yea i wasn't going to say anything, just because its not worth fighting about.
Opinions are Opinions.
I have a question about the using the radar though.
Does the officer have to visually reconize that a vehicle is speeding before he can confirm with the radar detector?
I know that most do not, but just curious.

Also I contacted xcopper, just to see what they say. What do you guys think of them?
I will read thru some more of the pages and see if I can find ouut some more info, but others have said they are a waste of money if you have the time and knowledge to do it yourself.
I'm intrested in this municiple infraction. do you have any more info about it.
I'm looking online, and will later on but if they are willing to change it to that, I could live with that. Even if it means the government stealing more of my money.

Now I'm just living here temporaraly, and will be moving back to California soon(why I ahve my dads truck)
Do they offer any sort of traffic school like they do in the States?
That way you dont get a conviction on your record?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:33 pm 
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jumpmanx2323 wrote:
Does the officer have to visually reconize that a vehicle is speeding before he can confirm with the radar detector?

Police do not use radar detectors

HTA OREG 607. Ontario does not have a recipricol agreement with California, however a collection agency could be notified should the fine not be paid.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:48 pm 
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I meant Radar.
Also I asked if Ontario provides Traffic school, in place on convictions(on the first offense)

And what is with the critical comments.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:52 am 
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Location: Toronto
A few answers for you:

jumpmanx2323 wrote:
Does the officer have to visually reconize that a vehicle is speeding before he can confirm with the radar detector?


Yes, the officer must first visually observe the vehicle is speeding before clocking it with radar or lidar. This is sometimes referred to as a "tracking history." Police officers are trained on how to visually recognize a vehicle is speeding. If the officer randomly targeted vehicles with the speed-measuring device until a certain reading popped up, without first recognizing that they were speeding, the charge would be dismissed at trial.

jumpmanx2323 wrote:
Also I contacted xcopper, just to see what they say. What do you guys think of them?


I can't really offer an opinion of any paralegal service, but I can tell you that almost all paralegals are good at getting the charges reduced/dropped. You'll have to weigh the cost/benefits, but seeing as how you are returning to California and it is one of the few US states that does not have reciprocity with Ontario, you could also just plea-bargain it down yourself.

jumpmanx2323 wrote:
I'm intrested in this municiple infraction. do you have any more info about it.


Almost all municipalities/regions in Ontario have various traffic by-laws. In some cases, they complement the HTA. Most places in Ontario have by-law infractions for disobeying signs, making prohibited turns, etc. These are usually in the same statutes as the municipal parking infractions. So, for example, if you disobeyed a sign on a road, you could be charged with HTA 182 (2) Disobey Sign, or "disobey official sign" or something like that, under local by-laws. It's worth a shot, but I don't know how likely it is that the Prosecutor will offer you a municipal infraction. For speeding, they usually will not, but they might. Municipal infractions do not affect insurance and do not go on your driver record.

jumpmanx2323 wrote:
Do they offer any sort of traffic school like they do in the States?


Nope. Also, depends on the state. Many of them don't offer that option. The only way to avoid a conviction on your Ontario record is to either get the charge dropped/dismissed or to get a municipal by-law infraction.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:58 am 
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I will file for trial on Friday. Then once I get the date, I will request disclosure.
I assume that the "tracking record" will be part of it.
I know he will probably say yes, he did visually observe me at high speed, but I only ahead of him for a few seconds, and on a downhill, before he started slowing down to turn around. So we will see how that goes.

Thank you for you productive, and helpful response Radar.
I appreciate it.


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