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URGENT!what is Genesis VIP:II ? expert, please help!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:57 pm 
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I requested the disclosure on may using the office's form.
court date is on July
on July 9 I called and ask if they have the disclosure yet, they said no
so, on July I came out in court but there was no disclosure AND no interpreter! JP change court date until Nov, 10 because there is no interpreter! not mentioning anything about missing disclosure yet!

Now, with the November 10 court date
I request disclosure again on Sept 6 because I don't have disclosure yet
1 month later I called the office and they said they don't receive the fax request yet! but they already have the disclosure ready for me since May 13!


so any how, they said they have the disclosure for me already since the last court date! But When I called them on July 9, they said there was no disclosure! Any way, I got the disclosure now, even though it is not the specific one I was asking for....

Here is police note: 81 ( I think this is the speed clocked at)
posted 50

and the device is Genesis VIP II on @8:30
or Genesis VDP II on @8:30
or Genesis V/P II on @8:30

and the manual that they give me was :
Genesis-VP directional (page 25 only)
6.1 operator -requested self test
6.2 Mini -test
and another manual they added in there was :
Genesis Handheld Directional manual (GHD)
5.2.7 Scanning The genesis handheld directional verifies speed accuracy using synthesized Doppler Frequencies corresponding to a series of four simulated speeds: 25, 50, 75, 100 when in KM/H mode.
Speed simulation Test-
5.2.8 Vehical ignition Interference
6.1 Testing device
6.3 Tracking history
for each enforcement action taken by the police with respect to a speeding offence arising out of the use of this radar unit a tracking history must occur. The tracking history must consist of:
1) A visual observation of an approaching motor vehical that appear to be in excess of the posted. Generally, skilled officer are able to estimate the speed within plus or minus 5 km/h.
2) having made the visual observation and estimate the rate of speed, the radar unit will be placed in the operational mode.
3) Note, that the target speed displayed on the radar unit is consistent and confirms the officer's initial estimate, and the audio tracking tone emitted by the radar unit is consistent with the visual observvation and the target speed displayed.

Please, can some expert help me answer is this the complete manual? To me, it is likely to be one section of 2 different manual.
and
What kind of device does police use in his scratchy hand notes?
can anyone help me how to get the full manual of his device?
and How do I know if he tested the device before and after shift since it doesn't mention that in his note.
what is " @8:30" mean?,
please help I only have 1 month until the next trail date, should I request another complete disclosure?


Last edited by Cutiemouse888 on Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:55 pm 
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Posts: 162
Location: Mississauga
What is a time frame of your case? Unreasonably delayed perhabs? If you intend to argue unreasonable delay, keep in mind that it is time sensitive and documents need to be filed in advance.

Sounds like it was genesis VPD. That is the device mounted in the police cruiser. This device could be used while stationary and in motion as well.

Likely you will not be able to get a copy of "an entire" manual. You may view it at the prosecution office in any event. For speeding matters officers must be trained and qualified to operate thi device and use it in accordance with manufacturer's specs. That is what was provided to you.

P.S. You certainly received 2 different testing procedures one for Genesis VPD and the other For Genesis Hand Held.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:39 am 
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thankyou do much for your reply TrafficLaw

The time frame you were asking for was:
Feb 3 2010 was when I got stop by the police
March 25 1st court date( I adjorned it because I left ontario)
July 22 2nd court date ( but no interpreter, therefore the JP delay again)
November 10 3rd court date which is coming in a month!
I don't know what to do, it's been 10 months since the first offence date.


P.S if you said the radar is the one mounted on the dash ( decatur Genesis vpd II) Then the two manuals disclosed is not the device he used to lock me in! There fore the disclosure is incomplete! The 2 manuals are both hand-held radar in differrent models. one is battery operated, one is with a cigarrette plug in!

P.S how come the police note does not have the distance he clock me at? or the position of the police car? Can I use that as a argument? I remember clearly that the police car was 150metres after the 50 BEGIN sign. My car when I stopped was 100 metre after the 50 BEGIN sign. there fore, when he clocked me, was it posible I was still in differnt speed zone! because how can I stop within 100metre when driving at 84km/hr?

so what should I do?
1) file for a Stay because of 10 month period, or because of incomplete disclosure...or other reasons?
2) request for more missing disclosure?
3) argue with him in court?

PLEASE HELP
3)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:29 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Traffic Law wrote:
Sounds like it was genesis VPD. That is the device mounted in the police cruiser. This device could be used while stationary and in motion as well.


The Genesis VPD is a handheld radar, NOT mounted in a cruiser.

What doesn't help is the original post containing a variety of "guesses" of what radar was being used, mixing several different types of models and capabilites in the description.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:25 pm 
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Quote:
What doesn't help is the original post containing a variety of "guesses" of what radar was being used, mixing several different types of models and capabilites in the description.



Thankyou HWYBEAR for reply

you really make me worry now about my case....but can you explain more about that quote you just mention? If the police handwriting about the note That means that he mixed up about the model of the device he used on that day right? can I use this excuse in court? he wrote down Genesis VDP II and that doesn't make sense.
I just send another re-request of a typed up version disclosure and request the manual of whatever device he wrote on his note. BUT forgot to sign the letter AND already faxed it!. hopes this is not a big deal in court right?
Another thing, can I use the R.V Meyer case and the French Language act to make the JP know that the 50BEGIN sign is invalidate?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:13 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
The officer probably did not mess up what he/she was using. Each individual officer uses their own coding (short form) in their notes. So simply ask for clarification on what make/model was used and the manual for said device. Further, the notes only need contain enough info for the officer to remember the incident.

The "Begins" part does not invalidate the "50" part of the sign. "MAXIMUM 50" on it's own is a valid speed sign.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:22 am 
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hwy bear, I already sent the re-request for police typed note an also the manual of the device he handwrote in his notes. but again as as mention earlier I forgot to sign the re-request letter but already faxed it. hopes they don't use that to back- fire me in court. If yes, I would just say that their "office request form" doesn't require signature either, so why should my own form should have signature in there! i hope this minor mistake doesn't affect my "multiple attempts" resquests.

with the fact that they disclosed
* 2 different types of hand held radar manuals and
*not specify before and after shift tests, and
* models/make of radar used was unclear and
* not given the position of police car and target vehical
can I argue that the police himself does not have enough evidence against me. or should I delay trail date again base on lack of disclosure, an that will strenghten my 11b argument on new trail date?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:45 pm 
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Location: somewhere in traffic
with the fact that they disclosed
* 2 different types of hand held radar manuals and ------- could help you
*not specify before and after shift tests, and ---- will help you
* models/make of radar used was unclear and ------- could help you
* not given the position of police car and target vehical ----- non issue
can I argue that the police himself does not have enough evidence against me. or should I delay trail date again base on lack of disclosure, an that will strenghten my 11b argument on new trail date?

See the red text

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http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:43 am 
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thankyou so much all of you. you guys are very helpful and this site is very informative. thanks :P :wink:

I will bring it to court and delay it.
I will inform you when it's done.

so in the mean time, I just wait or so I file 11B now?


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court in 1 week! uncomplete disclosure, radar unidentified!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:40 pm 
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I love this site because you people are very informative especially Neo 333, Simon, Reflection, Ticketcomabt and Hyw Bear.....

So my 3rd court date is coming in a week

1st court date: I got it adjourned because I went to quebec
2nd court date: the JP adjourned it because no interpreter
3rd court date: coming in a week


Feb 2010: got ticket for speeding 31over50
may 2010 using the office's form for 2nd court date which is on July
on July 9 I called and they said no disclosure available!
July I came out in court but there was no disclosure AND no interpreter! JP change court date until Nov, 10 because there is no interpreter! not mentioning anything about missing disclosure yet!Now, with the November 10 court date
I request disclosure again on Sept
1 month later I called the office, they already have the disclosure ready for me since May !
so they gave me the disclosure base on the first request not the second request! The disclosure is not complete!

it only includes
1 page officer note with 4 lines of jot note like this :
81 posted 50 @, and blury word like and the word
Genesis VIP II on @8:30
plus the manual that they give me was :
Genesis-VP directional (page 25 only)
6.1 operator -requested self test
6.2 Mini -test
and another manual they added in there was :
Genesis Handheld Directional manual (GHD)
5.2.7 Scanning
5.2.8 Vehical ignition Interference
6.1 Testing device
6.3 Tracking history

I resquest for typed copy but the office clerk was refused to help!
I fax another re-disclosure request and still no answer.

how can I proceed like this?
1)unreadable police note
2) unclarify what radar was used
3) two diferent manuals with one page of each manual!( I requested full manual)
4) not mention about before and after shift test or tracking history
5) I have requested for interpreter for myself, can my daughter go to court instead of me AND STILL REQUEST the interprenter for herseft because she not speaking perfect english? ( she is more logical than me about debating in court. I'm still stress out even though communicating in my own language!)

can you guys help me with some case laws and my next step?? please


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:08 am
Posts: 30
from all your posts and questions, in my experience you need to talk to a professional. You're over your head. All your defence is in the disclosure and that does not work often. You won't get the complete manual. You can view it at the prosecutors office. Asking for the complete manual so you can build a defence is a fishing expedition at that will fail. Mistakes by the officer are not uncommon, but if the trial starts, you loose your chance to take a lower speed offer.

I gotta ask, if you need a translator, who is doing your typing? In regards to your daughter, no you can not use her. It has to be an approved translator. Using a your own child is never good, especially if, to her, you don't appear to be completely truthful. Stick to the translator delay and if its a no show again ask for it to be dismissed


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