22 km over (72 in 50 zone)

Unread post by: **b0b** on

22 km over (72 in 50 zone)

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Unread post by: b0b on
Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Hey all,

I have recently received a ticket for going 22km/h over. The first ticket that I ever gotten.

I have been doing some reading on this site as well as ticketcombat, great site by the way. I decided to go the court route, and once i get my trial date in the mail I will fax a disclosure form. I am going to used the sample one from ticketcombat. From reading the forum I think i am going to ask for the following on the disclosure:

copy of the police officers notes
copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket
typed version of any hand written notes
statements made by the defendant
calibration record of the unit
training record of the officer for the unit
and a manual

I was wondering if anyone could indicate if this is sufficient and what else i could ask for?

Thanks,
b0b

Unread post by: **racer** on

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Unread post by: racer on
Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:05 pm

I would exclude "Statements made by defendant", but otherwise looks fine. Paralegals or 'Bear might comment better though.

"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com

Unread post by: **b0b** on

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Unread post by: b0b on
Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:28 pm

Thanks, i will remove that from the disclosure.

Unread post by: **OPS Copper** on

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Unread post by: OPS Copper on
Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:51 pm

b0b wrote:Hey all,

for the following on the disclosure:
copy of the police officers notes: Will get

copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket with some tickets there is nothing on the back. With our e-ticketing there is no back

typed version of any hand written notes: will only get if you cannot read officers notes

statements made by the defendant: see officer notes

calibration record of the unit: won't get just get that officer verified calibration

training record of the officer for the unit :Won't get. Officer will just testify that they are qualified or not

and a manual:seems this is dependant on prosecutor. some give manual some only give relevant parts

b0b

OPS

Unread post by: **Reflections** on

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Unread post by: Reflections on
Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:20 am

and a manual:seems this is dependant on prosecutor. some give manual some only give relevant parts

All parts are relevant

http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com

Unread post by: **OPS Copper** on

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Unread post by: OPS Copper on
Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:53 pm

Reflections wrote:
and a manual:seems this is dependant on prosecutor. some give manual some only give relevant parts
All parts are relevant

Perhaps but Seems that prosecutors are all doing different things when it comes to this....

OPS

Unread post by: **Radar Identified** on

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Unread post by: Radar Identified on
Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:55 pm

OPS Copper wrote:Perhaps but Seems that prosecutors are all doing different things when it comes to this....

No kidding.

* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca

Unread post by: **Reflections** on

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Unread post by: Reflections on
Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:56 pm

Radar Identified wrote:
OPS Copper wrote:Perhaps but Seems that prosecutors are all doing different things when it comes to this....
No kidding.

different courts+different rules+same provence=WTF

http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com

Unread post by: **b0b** on

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Unread post by: b0b on
Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:09 pm

Wondering if anyone can help.
I have a court date this friday, November 19th, I asked for a disclosure packages back in August when i got my court date. I have not received the disclosure package and was wondering if anyone can tell me how I should proceed during the trial. I didn't file f4 and don't have enough time to do it now. Any help would be appreciated.

Unread post by: **Simon Borys** on

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Unread post by: Simon Borys on
Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:14 pm

If you requested disclosure and the crown has had ample time to produce it and doesn't and the trial dates comes, you should be able to request an adjournment. The delay between that date and the next one counts against the crown for an 11(b) motion.

http://www.boryslaw.ca
NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.

Unread post by: **innocence** on

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Unread post by: innocence on
Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:44 pm

if you file F4, is it necessary to order the transcript too? what if the Crown ask you to order transcipt? is that means they are ready to jinx you on your 11B motion?

Unread post by: **b0b** on

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Unread post by: b0b on
Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:28 pm

Should I request the adjournment before making a plea? or how does it work?

Unread post by: **Radar Identified** on

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Unread post by: Radar Identified on
Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:44 pm

Yes. Disclosure, motions, etc., are preliminary matters and must be dealt with before the trial starts. Show up early, check in with the Prosecutor. Do NOT accept the disclosure package if they have it and want to give it to you before trial. Tell them that you are going to have to speak to the JP first. Instead, when the trial is about to start, and they ask you "how do you plead," mention that before you are making any pleas, the Prosecutor has not provided disclosure which was requested in August. That should force an adjournment. If they say "okay, well we will give it to you now, so go review it and come back in five minutes," object and point out that the Prosecutor needs at least 15 days notice just for a Notice of Constitutional Question, and also could not produce disclosure even after three months, so how could you possibly be expected to do so in five minutes? That would be prejudicial and completely unfair.

Once the adjournment has been forced, you should then be able to file an 11B. If you're not comfortable with the process, you can get a paralegal to do it for you. Usually in Toronto the Prosecutors simply withdraw the charges if an 11B is filed rather than fight it out. They're way too busy to argue Constitutional Questions on a daily basis with the clogged court system.

* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca

Unread post by: **b0b** on

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Unread post by: b0b on
Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:42 am

Thanks for the help, I'll let you know how it goes on Friday.

Unread post by: **hwybear** on

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Unread post by: hwybear on
Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:14 am

Radar Identified wrote:Yes. Disclosure, motions, etc., are preliminary matters and must be dealt with before the trial starts. Show up early, check in with the Prosecutor. Do NOT accept the disclosure package if they have it and want to give it to you before trial. Tell them that you are going to have to speak to the JP first. Instead, when the trial is about to start, and they ask you "how do you plead," mention that before you are making any pleas, the Prosecutor has not provided disclosure which was requested in August. That should force an adjournment. .

I would suggest this is border line making a false statement in court as disclosure (no matter how late) was provided/available by the crown. Can do the same thing with a little more tact and will look a lot more positive on your part by accepting disclosure from the prosecution. Then explain to JP only received disclosure this AM, when your request was made etc..

Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

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