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Am Devastated with Speeding Charge
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:13 am 
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To begin...35 years with NO charges.
Wednesday, travelling south on Hwy 28 from Peterborough...aware of the construction and different posted speed areas, was charged with 110 in an 80!
Officer was oncoming in a police cruiser, outside temperature 34 degrees around 1:30 pm. Traffic was moderate and another vehicle was behind me.
Officer spins around and pulls me over, no comments other than my charges and my options. I was SICK...I know I was NOT speeding...I have filed for a court date but how do is get a motion for discovery or disclosure.
I have read that heat/air conditioning running within a police card can affect readings...also the angle of the radar gun and the other traffic within the 'measurement area'.
I'm not sleeping because I'm so upset!


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:15 am 
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The heat and air conditioning doesn't affect the moving radar, which I'm assuming is what was used to capture your speed if the cruiser was moving in the opposite direction.

Check out the articles on www.ontarioticket.com and this forum for how to fight your ticket and request disclosure, then post here if you still have any questions.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:48 pm 
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Location: somewhere in traffic
Simon says, oh too many jokes there.

Seriously, choose option 3 on the back of the ticket to fight the charge and follow Simon's instructions. You have to obtain disclosure before you go any further. There is no reason to loose sleep either, there are many possible outcomes.

And the AC thing can affect radar, but only if you point the transeiver at the fan and they're buried inside the dash.

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Judicial Notice of Moving Radar in Ontario
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:26 pm 
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I have read case law where stationary radar and photo radar have judicial notice in Ontario. I have also found information regarding Lidar radar not having Judicial notice. I was wondering if someone could advise me (and refer me to documentation) regarding moving radar and whether it has judicial notice.
I have read a lot of Case law and appeals and cannot find specifics regarding this. I have also read numerous vendor operating manuals that discuss the 'shortcomings' of moving radar.
I'm preparing my challenge in court and need all the help I can get.

Issues I have:
- 500,000 volt hydro transmission lines, directly above and across the highway where I was targeted
- extreme daily heat of 32 degress and a humidex of 44 degrees
- target was coming down an incline, police cruiser was coming up
- traffic behind target and ahead of cruiser.

I was NOT travelling at 110 K in an 80 K zone as I have been charged with.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Location: somewhere in traffic
Quote:
- 500,000 volt hydro transmission lines, directly above and across the highway where I was targeted


Could cause an issue

Quote:
- traffic behind target and ahead of cruiser.


Also an issue


Option 3 and file for disclosure

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Re: Judicial Notice of Moving Radar in Ontario
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:26 pm 
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Helper wrote:

Issues I have:
- 500,000 volt hydro transmission lines, directly above and across the highway where I was targeted
- extreme daily heat of 32 degress and a humidex of 44 degrees
- target was coming down an incline, police cruiser was coming up
- traffic behind target and ahead of cruiser.



None of those points matter, but you can try


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:08 am 
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Stationary and moving radar, and LIDAR, all have judicial notice. Here is some case law (not binding) regarding taking judicial notice of moving radar (the Genesis Directional is a "moving" radar):

R v. Dattomo, 2009

Radar, whether it is stationary or moving, is not a novel or new technology being introduced to the courts in speeding cases.

You'd have to show proof from the operator's manual that one of the circumstances you described could have interfered with the radar's accuracy. Either that, or you would need an expert witness. Transmission lines can interfere with radar, but you'd need more than just hearsay about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:11 am 
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Interesting case, thank you!

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Re: Judicial Notice of Moving Radar in Ontario
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:35 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Helper wrote:
Issues I have:
- 500,000 volt hydro transmission lines, directly above and across the highway where I was targeted
- extreme daily heat of 32 degress and a humidex of 44 degrees
- target was coming down an incline, police cruiser was coming up
- traffic behind target and ahead of cruiser.


- I have deliberately aimed the radar at the towers/lines etc.. that you speak of (in case I am ever asked) as they run parallel to the hwy and across/above the hwy...negative results on any radar or lidar I have used.
(the only thing that might happen is the unit would display an error reading "RFI" and would be unable to obtain a numeric value for a target)
- outside temperature does not affect the radar
- radar beam for the most part goes out straight and cone shaped
- traffic ahead of the cruiser has no bearing on approaching traffic

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:46 am 
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Location: Wellington Ontario
Transmission lines are strung high enough to avoid causing interference to anything near or around them, the magnetic and induction fields just won't carry that far.

There is also conductor sag that is accounted for, this is the maximum sag at peak load in the lines, none of this would come close to interfering with a radar/lidar unit, if that were the cause no one would be able to use radios.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:37 pm 
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Location: somewhere in traffic
Interference still happens, noise on the radio under powerlines is proof. Like bear said though, there is an indication on the radar unit for this.

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Court Date Today
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:14 pm 
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I attended court today knowing that I would ask for a postponemen...I did not receive any disclosure until it was handed to me today.
Now all I got was a copy of the trial request, a copy of the ticket and some very brief notes from the officiers log.
I was shocked when I noted that the officer recorded that I was passing another car when he clocked me...I WAS NOT PASSING A CAR...he stated a blue honda...there was no blue car anywhere around...a gray car behind me only. A bleige cube van ahead of him.
He stated that I was at the bottom of the hill...I was coming down the hill...him up but I was NOT at the bottom. How should I handle this!

My disclosure asked for the radar manul and speedometer calibration document, officier training certificate and repair records on device. The prosecutor stated that these are not normally provided. (I have collected case law stating that I have a right to be provided with these).
Also the prosecutor pulled me aside and said because I had no other infractions she was willing to offer me 95 in an 80KM zone, no points and a $45 fine...my issue is I will have to plead guilty to take this and I was NOT!
What to do...any and all comments would be appreciated.


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Re: Am Devastated with Speeding Charge
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 7:19 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Hamilton, ON
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Hello;

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, JUST AN OPINION

Helper wrote:
was charged with 110 in an 80!
Officer was oncoming in a police cruiser...
...
Officer spins around and pulls me over...

...I have also found information regarding Lidar radar ...


A couple of things:

Was a LIDAR used? I believe the LIDAR, must be used while at a stationary position, ideally mounted on a tripod.

If the officer was driving a cruiser, how could he/she be using a LIDAR? Could someone please tell me if this is done or even possible?

The second observation is that, if you are found guilty as charged (driving 30 km/hr over the limit) you will get the offence and 4 demerit points on your record.

On the other hand, I think the prosecution's offer is pretty good. You would have to plead guilty to the amended certificate reflecting 15 km/hr over the limit and this -minor- offence will go to your record.

I would take the offer, but that is just me!

Cheers.
.


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Re: Court Date Today
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:58 pm 
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Helper wrote:
I attended court today knowing that I would ask for a postponemen...I did not receive any disclosure until it was handed to me today.
Now all I got was a copy of the trial request, a copy of the ticket and some very brief notes from the officiers log.
I was shocked when I noted that the officer recorded that I was passing another car when he clocked me...I WAS NOT PASSING A CAR...he stated a blue honda...there was no blue car anywhere around...a gray car behind me only. A bleige cube van ahead of him.
He stated that I was at the bottom of the hill...I was coming down the hill...him up but I was NOT at the bottom. How should I handle this!

My disclosure asked for the radar manul and speedometer calibration document, officier training certificate and repair records on device. The prosecutor stated that these are not normally provided. (I have collected case law stating that I have a right to be provided with these).
Also the prosecutor pulled me aside and said because I had no other infractions she was willing to offer me 95 in an 80KM zone, no points and a $45 fine...my issue is I will have to plead guilty to take this and I was NOT!
What to do...any and all comments would be appreciated.


Ok, so what you need to do is resend your disclosure request stressing that you would like a copy of the users manual. Make sure you have a record, registered mail or fax. If you are not provided with the information you can ask the JP at your next court date for a stay due to lack of disclosure. Make sure you have multiple copies of any case law you intend to site and you should be home free. Yiou don't even have to worry about the officer's point of view. GL.

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Are these options still open
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:28 pm 
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The prosecutor told me that she did not 'close' the reduced penalty offer therefore can I...

File another disclosure request specifically asking for items again and include citings to case law specifics and then proceed to my January court date?

If I decide to take the offer by the prosecutor, must I state I was guilty but rather than I have accepted a plea offer...I don't know if I could force myself to say I was guilty when I was NOT.

I have to say...I understand why so many people just roll over and pay these fines...it has cost me so much in my time and lost wages! It certainly is an uphill battle.


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