Am Devastated with Speeding Charge

To begin...35 years with NO charges.

Wednesday, travelling south on Hwy 28 from Peterborough...aware of the construction and different posted speed areas, was charged with 110 in an 80!

Officer was oncoming in a police cruiser, outside temperature 34 degrees around 1:30 pm. Traffic was moderate and another vehicle was behind me.

Officer spins around and pulls me over, no comments other than my charges and my options. I was SICK...I know I was NOT speeding...I have filed for a court date but how do is get a motion for discovery or disclosure.

I have read that heat/air conditioning running within a police card can affect readings...also the angle of the radar gun and the other traffic within the 'measurement area'.

I'm not sleeping because I'm so upset!

The heat and air conditioning doesn't affect the moving radar, which I'm assuming is what was used to capture your speed if the cruiser was moving in the opposite direction.

Check out the articles on www.ontarioticket.com and this forum for how to fight your ticket and request disclosure, then post here if you still have any questions.

Simon says, oh too many jokes there.

Seriously, choose option 3 on the back of the ticket to fight the charge and follow Simon's instructions. You have to obtain disclosure before you go any further. There is no reason to loose sleep either, there are many possible outcomes.

And the AC thing can affect radar, but only if you point the transeiver at the fan and they're buried inside the dash.

I have read case law where stationary radar and photo radar have judicial notice in Ontario. I have also found information regarding Lidar radar not having Judicial notice. I was wondering if someone could advise me (and refer me to documentation) regarding moving radar and whether it has judicial notice.

I have read a lot of Case law and appeals and cannot find specifics regarding this. I have also read numerous vendor operating manuals that discuss the 'shortcomings' of moving radar.

I'm preparing my challenge in court and need all the help I can get.

Issues I have:

- 500,000 volt hydro transmission lines, directly above and across the highway where I was targeted

- extreme daily heat of 32 degress and a humidex of 44 degrees

- target was coming down an incline, police cruiser was coming up

- traffic behind target and ahead of cruiser.

I was NOT travelling at 110 K in an 80 K zone as I have been charged with.

- 500,000 volt hydro transmission lines, directly above and across the highway where I was targeted

Could cause an issue

- traffic behind target and ahead of cruiser.

Also an issue

Option 3 and file for disclosure

Helper wrote:

Issues I have:

- 500,000 volt hydro transmission lines, directly above and across the highway where I was targeted

- extreme daily heat of 32 degress and a humidex of 44 degrees

- target was coming down an incline, police cruiser was coming up

- traffic behind target and ahead of cruiser.

None of those points matter, but you can try

Stationary and moving radar, and LIDAR, all have judicial notice. Here is some case law (not binding) regarding taking judicial notice of moving radar (the Genesis Directional is a "moving" radar):

R v. Dattomo, 2009

Radar, whether it is stationary or moving, is not a novel or new technology being introduced to the courts in speeding cases.

You'd have to show proof from the operator's manual that one of the circumstances you described could have interfered with the radar's accuracy. Either that, or you would need an expert witness. Transmission lines can interfere with radar, but you'd need more than just hearsay about it.

Interesting case, thank you!

Helper wrote:

Issues I have:

- 500,000 volt hydro transmission lines, directly above and across the highway where I was targeted

- extreme daily heat of 32 degress and a humidex of 44 degrees

- target was coming down an incline, police cruiser was coming up

- traffic behind target and ahead of cruiser.

- I have deliberately aimed the radar at the towers/lines etc.. that you speak of (in case I am ever asked) as they run parallel to the hwy and across/above the hwy...negative results on any radar or lidar I have used.

(the only thing that might happen is the unit would display an error reading "RFI" and would be unable to obtain a numeric value for a target)

- outside temperature does not affect the radar

- radar beam for the most part goes out straight and cone shaped

- traffic ahead of the cruiser has no bearing on approaching traffic

Transmission lines are strung high enough to avoid causing interference to anything near or around them, the magnetic and induction fields just won't carry that far.

There is also conductor sag that is accounted for, this is the maximum sag at peak load in the lines, none of this would come close to interfering with a radar/lidar unit, if that were the cause no one would be able to use radios.

Interference still happens, noise on the radio under powerlines is proof. Like bear said though, there is an indication on the radar unit for this.

I attended court today knowing that I would ask for a postponemen...I did not receive any disclosure until it was handed to me today.

Now all I got was a copy of the trial request, a copy of the ticket and some very brief notes from the officiers log.

I was shocked when I noted that the officer recorded that I was passing another car when he clocked me...I WAS NOT PASSING A CAR...he stated a blue honda...there was no blue car anywhere around...a gray car behind me only. A bleige cube van ahead of him.

He stated that I was at the bottom of the hill...I was coming down the hill...him up but I was NOT at the bottom. How should I handle this!

My disclosure asked for the radar manul and speedometer calibration document, officier training certificate and repair records on device. The prosecutor stated that these are not normally provided. (I have collected case law stating that I have a right to be provided with these).

Also the prosecutor pulled me aside and said because I had no other infractions she was willing to offer me 95 in an 80KM zone, no points and a $45 fine...my issue is I will have to plead guilty to take this and I was NOT!

What to do...any and all comments would be appreciated.

.

Hello;

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, JUST AN OPINION

Helper wrote:

was charged with 110 in an 80!

Officer was oncoming in a police cruiser...

...

Officer spins around and pulls me over...

...I have also found information regarding Lidar radar ...

A couple of things:

Was a LIDAR used? I believe the LIDAR, must be used while at a stationary position, ideally mounted on a tripod.

If the officer was driving a cruiser, how could he/she be using a LIDAR? Could someone please tell me if this is done or even possible?

The second observation is that, if you are found guilty as charged (driving 30 km/hr over the limit) you will get the offence and 4 demerit points on your record.

On the other hand, I think the prosecution's offer is pretty good. You would have to plead guilty to the amended certificate reflecting 15 km/hr over the limit and this -minor- offence will go to your record.

I would take the offer, but that is just me!

Cheers.

.

Helper wrote:

I attended court today knowing that I would ask for a postponemen...I did not receive any disclosure until it was handed to me today.

Now all I got was a copy of the trial request, a copy of the ticket and some very brief notes from the officiers log.

I was shocked when I noted that the officer recorded that I was passing another car when he clocked me...I WAS NOT PASSING A CAR...he stated a blue honda...there was no blue car anywhere around...a gray car behind me only. A bleige cube van ahead of him.

He stated that I was at the bottom of the hill...I was coming down the hill...him up but I was NOT at the bottom. How should I handle this!

My disclosure asked for the radar manul and speedometer calibration document, officier training certificate and repair records on device. The prosecutor stated that these are not normally provided. (I have collected case law stating that I have a right to be provided with these).

Also the prosecutor pulled me aside and said because I had no other infractions she was willing to offer me 95 in an 80KM zone, no points and a $45 fine...my issue is I will have to plead guilty to take this and I was NOT!

What to do...any and all comments would be appreciated.

Ok, so what you need to do is resend your disclosure request stressing that you would like a copy of the users manual. Make sure you have a record, registered mail or fax. If you are not provided with the information you can ask the JP at your next court date for a stay due to lack of disclosure. Make sure you have multiple copies of any case law you intend to site and you should be home free. Yiou don't even have to worry about the officer's point of view. GL.

The prosecutor told me that she did not 'close' the reduced penalty offer therefore can I...

File another disclosure request specifically asking for items again and include citings to case law specifics and then proceed to my January court date?

If I decide to take the offer by the prosecutor, must I state I was guilty but rather than I have accepted a plea offer...I don't know if I could force myself to say I was guilty when I was NOT.

I have to say...I understand why so many people just roll over and pay these fines...it has cost me so much in my time and lost wages! It certainly is an uphill battle.

Don't worry about the case law until your next court date. Resend the request for your information.

Well, here's the next installament.

Aug 30 - hand delivered disclosure request to courthouse and had it stamped

Oct. 5 - called Prosecutors office and left message regarding disclosure (no reply)

Oct. 14 - copy of disclosure request given to prosecutor by hand durin first court appearance (At that time they offered a plea deal of 95 in an 80 with no demerit), the young lady pulled me aside in the foyer after my appearance and stated that the offer would remain open.

Nov 17 - send a registered letter again asking for discloure, also stating that I did not want to vacate my offer but needed more information.

Dec 30 - called prosecutor's office again and left message. [i](Thought at this point I could ask the justice of the peace for a stay based upon lack of discloure)[/i]

Dec 31 - received a three page testing procedure photocopy from the prosecutor, not the manual and not speedometer calibration or officer training record.

The letter also stated that the 'offer' was a one-time only offer and I should not expect it at my next court appearance on Jan. 13

Therefore, if you buck the system to get information about the process, you are penalized! I feel intimidated and coerced..what should I do now.

I have to say this whole process has been very over whelming!

Well you won't get speedo calibration record. Unless it was used to pace you it is not relevant. Disclosure is not a fishing expedition. It has to be relevant to the charge. Officers training record you won't get. You can ask the officer if he is qualified and they will testify under oath yes.

Hell here we are not even given a training certificate to give.

Court is a roll of the dice. No where does it say you have to be given a reduced offer. It is completely up to the prosecutor. Guess you have learned that.

ops

I agree with all of that. While it might not be philosophically proper to "punish" people who want to take advantage of their right to see the evidence against them, it happens all the time. It's just one of those realities you have to deal with.

Well it's the final installment...

I took the prosecutors' offer of a reduction to 95 in an 80 (no demerits and only a $45 fine). It really upset me to do this...and I was going to ask for a stay for lack of disclosure...the JP that day was not a friendly type. I had even prepared a Factum with the Crown Policy related to disclosure, the Stinchom case study and 8 other case studies validating my requests for detailed information.

For all others...if they do not provide disclosure and you go with NOT GUILTY...as soon as the officer is asked about how he operated the radar, stand up and OBJECT! You did not receive dsclosure on how the radar operates and therefore the prosecution should be prevented from asking about and bringing this into evidence. If the radar cannot be used as evidence then the prosecution will be unlikely to prove a prima facea (sp?) case.

You could also ask the officer about the SMC (Speed Monitoring Committee/Coordinator) within the detachment. If he/she states that there is one then there MUST be repair records and calibration records related to the radar device.

I found a pdf from Niagara Falls Regional, Peterborough and Ottawa Police services that all state that they have such a person and maintain such records. If the prosecution states they don't exist, then under the Freedom of Information act, ask the detachment directly.

Its two weeks since I took the offer and plead guilty and I am still upset by it..when I told the prosecutor that if I plead guily then I would be purging myself...he laughed at me...what at *@#&%(@&(&@.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank this site and all that contribute...I know that it was a great help to me and to others.