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Help me prepare for Speeding charge Trial *Pics and Maps ins
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:57 am 
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Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 10:53 am
Posts: 2
Hi Everyone

I got stopped for speeding and charged going 85km/hr in 60 Zone. Here are my notes, transcript, disclosures etc

Offence Date : 04/04/2014 at 12:12PM
Notes taken : 04/04/2014 at 1:20PM
Stopped At : McVean Dr and Poppy Hills Rd
Offence : Speeding 85KM/Hr in 60KM/hr Zone
Weather Condition: Little drizzle
Road Condition : Good but wet
Traffic condition : Light
Direction : Travelling south on McVean Rd

Notes : I was third car in the left lane at RED light on McVean Dr and Castlemore Rd. When the light turned green, two cars in front of me started moving. One car in front of me changed the lane to right and went into Edible Arrangements Plaza and second car changed the lane to right. I became first car on next Red light at McVean Rd and Tappet Dr.

At red light, I noticed unmarked police vehicle behind me which was not behind me when I was stopped at red light at Castlemore Rd. When light turned Green, I slowly started rolling. As soon as I started moving, officer pulled me over at McVean Dr and Poppy Hills Rd.

Important Point 1 : Distance between Castlemore Rd and Tappet Dr is only 650 meters.

Image

Important Point 2 : Distance between Tappet Dr is only 400 meters

Image

Google Map of the area : https://www.google.com/maps/dir//43.7758684,-79.6916717/@43.777135,-79.6942681,16z/data=!4m3!4m2!1m0!1m0

Transcript:
Me: Good morning officer
Officer : Good morning, do you know you were travelling 85km/hr in 60km/hr zone
Me: 85km/hr!!?? (I was shocked)
Officer : Yes, do you have your documents ready.
Me : *Handed my driver’s license and insurance slip*
Officer : And your ownership too
Me : *Looked in my glove box, found it and handed over to officer*
Officer : Can you take your driver license out of the pouch? I don’t want to damage the pouch.
Me : Sure *carefully took my driver license out and handed over to the officer*
Officer : I’ll be back (When into his cruiser to check the documents)
Officer : *Came back with ticket and explained my options*
Me : Thank you

In my disclosure request I asked for following items as I feel there was no way I would be able to do 85km/hr in such a short distance :

* the speed testing device brand, model, serial number, it’s operation and maintenance manual

- Calibration Certificate for the Radar

- Calibration Certificate for any calibration equipment

- Certificate of Conformance

- Industry Canada certificate certifying that the unit has been approved for use in Canada

But I only got handwritten officers notes and Manual of the Radar (no model, serial number or calibration record of the radar)

Officer's note :

Image

I am going to send another disclosure request for missing items and typed version of Notes.
Can someone help me make sense of the officer notes? Also Do I have ground to beat this ticket?
What should be my approach?

Thanks


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Re: Help me prepare for Speeding charge Trial *Pics and Maps
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
Posts: 803
On what basis do you think you can fight this? It's a laser ticket and the officer has listed speed, distance and bracketing tests.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: Help me prepare for Speeding charge Trial *Pics and Maps
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 279
From the notes, I get the following:

You were driving southbound in L1 of Poppy Hills (a 2 lane road). You were driving a 2 door black 2008 Mitsubishi.
The officer used a Laser device. He locked you in at 85 km/h at a distance of 88.67 meters. You were the only motor vehicle in the laser's path at the time.
He stopped you south of Cottrelle. You were the only occupant in the vehicle; a male who is also the registered owner. You had all valid documents. The road at the time was wet with light rain. He tested the laser unit at 9:50am and then at 5:50pm---both tests being ok.

I hope that helps you out. You certainly can request the additional disclosure, but I highly doubt they'll provide it. The rationale being that if you wish to challenge the effectiveness of the device, you can bring in your own expert evidence to do so. The officer is merely trained as an 'operator' not a 'engineer' or 'technician' of the device. So long as he/she follows the manufacturer's recommended tests and it passes as OK---he/she's done HIS/HER job.

Think of it this way: most folks are 'qualified' to operate their microwave. They simply read the owner's manual and push some buttons. Now, if you want to challenge the ability of the microwave to cook food or do what it says, you are going to need expert evidence. That's a WHOLE different ballgame!!! The operator doesn't need to know the inner workings of the device!!!

Unfortunately, most people don't understand this difference and think that the officer needs to also know how to calibrate things, repair it, understand the science behind it, etc. While many certainly do understand, they don't have to!

Regardless, good luck with your case.


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Re: Help me prepare for Speeding charge Trial *Pics and Maps
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 682
+1 to highwaystar's answer.
You won't get the calibration documents from the prosecutor.


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Re: Help me prepare for Speeding charge Trial *Pics and Maps
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:09 am 
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Newbie

Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 10:53 am
Posts: 2
Thanks Everyone for your input.

My car is not modded in anyway and I don't believe I had enough road to accelerate to speed of 85km/hr and then decelerate to zero for red light. Which makes calibration records very important in my scenario. If Prosecutor is not going to give me those, how should I go by in preparing my case? Any advice would be very helpful.


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Re: Help me prepare for Speeding charge Trial *Pics and Maps
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:02 pm 
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High Authority

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
roadrunner17 wrote:
My car is not modded in anyway and I don't believe I had enough road to accelerate to speed of 85km/hr and then decelerate to zero for red light.


Unfortunately, this argument isn't going to get you anywhere in Court. With evidence from a speed measuring device, your belief about your cars ability won't hold weight. It's your opinion versus a device designed to measure speed.

Even if your argument was considered, how would you prove it? You might be surprised how little distance it actually takes to reach highway speeds. You can play around with constant acceleration formulas yourself and get an idea. Obviously there are a ton of variables at play, namely type of vehicle, road condition and driver's ability, but you can still get a pretty good idea.

To be conservative, let's say your 0-85 time is 12 seconds. Even the slowest economy cars can reach 100 km/hr in about 10 seconds, so your car should definitely be able to hit that speed/time under moderate acceleration. The distance required to reach that speed would be 510 meters. Now lets look at stopping distances. Estimates for emergency braking at 85 km/hr vary from 50-60 meters. I doubt you were locking up your brakes, so let's assume you gradually slowed your vehicle and took triple that distance to stop over 150 meters. So with those conservative estimates, you're just over 650 meter distance. If we plugged in more aggressive numbers which assumed you were hard on the gas and brakes, that distance could easily drop to 400 meters.

Unfortunately you're pretty much stuck trying to raise reasonable doubt regarding the laser.


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