The idea of failing to provide DL

rank
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The idea of failing to provide DL

Unread post by rank on

OK so Jshreck has been taking some heat for the concept of providing the DL as being not required and therefore inadmissable in court. Personally, I think that argument would fall on deaf ears in the lower court and any chance at victory would have to be in the highest court. That would be quite something. When pigs fly I think, but along that line of thought, allow me to continue.......

Back in college, a buddy of mine was walking home from the bar while drinking his beer. Officer pulls over and gets him in the back of the car. Proceeds to charge him with liquor in public.

Officer: Can I have your I.D. please.
Buddy: I don't have it.
Officer: What's your name?
Buddy: Ted.
Officer: Ted what?
Buddy: Ted Nugent.

Officer...(apparently not a fan of the Nuge) hands my buddy a ticket made out to Ted Nugent. Obviously that fine went unpaid.

So my questions to the learned officers on the forum;
1. what is the charge for driving when you forgot all your I.D. at home? It happens all the time to me.
2. What is the charge for lying to a police officer about your identity?


OPS Copper
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Unread post by OPS Copper on

These charges

Fail to surrender DL under the HTA

Ad Obstruct police which is a criminal charge and much more serious than the hTA charge.

ops


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Unread post by rank on

OPS Copper wrote:These charges

Fail to surrender DL under the HTA

Ad Obstruct police which is a criminal charge and much more serious than the hTA charge.

ops
Thanks. Whichever is the more serious depends on the driver and specific circumstances I suspect.

Who does he make the ticket out to if he doesn't have a name? I guess if it's criminal (obstruction) then the driver gets arrested and held in jail until......when? If he never provides his name they can never charge him right?
Last edited by rank on Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.


screeech
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Unread post by screeech on

Most cruisers now have the capability to pull up driver photos during the traffic stop. So if you say you are Ted Nugent and they pull up his picture and you lied, you will be arrested on the spot for obstruct justice and personation.


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Unread post by UnluckyDuck on

Not really. Criminal charges are very serious. I'd honestly rather get charged for every single violation in the HTA than 1 criminal offense. Criminal offenses show up on background checks, so applying for jobs would be affected, plus I know for certain criminal charges you can't leave the country with (I.e. Vacation, visiting family). I'd rather have no license than losing my job / not being able to leave the country.


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Unread post by rank on

screeech wrote:Most cruisers now have the capability to pull up driver photos during the traffic stop. So if you say you are Ted Nugent and they pull up his picture and you lied, you will be arrested on the spot for obstruct justice and personation.
I don't think so. There is only one Nuge, but certainly more than one Ted Nugent in the world.


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Unread post by rank on

UnluckyDuck wrote:Not really. Criminal charges are very serious. I'd honestly rather get charged for every single violation in the HTA than 1 criminal offense. Criminal offenses show up on background checks, so applying for jobs would be affected, plus I know for certain criminal charges you can't leave the country with (I.e. Vacation, visiting family). I'd rather have no license than losing my job / not being able to leave the country.
I think I might rather face obstruction that dangerous driving or impaired.


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Unread post by UnluckyDuck on

Dangerous driving and impairs are criminal, not HTA.


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Unread post by screeech on

You are missing my point...no matter what name the driver gives, they can pull up that persons picture, if it doesn't match then the criminal investigation begins...There are many other investigative steps as well, not just with the picture...


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Unread post by rank on

I know impaired and dangerous are criminal. Exactly why one might prefer to be charged with obstruction.


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Unread post by OPS Copper on

They arrest and transport to jail and he goes before a judge. Until they give their name they are not released. I have arrested a few john Does and their resolve usually lasts until they sober up or get before a judge and they realize they are going to real jail.

Plus if they have a criminal record they have had fingerprints in the system so they get printed and checked against those record.

I think there is a case where a guy was arrested for a immigration matter and he just passed 8 years in jail because he refuses to tell his real name.

Oh and you will still face the dangerous operation and impaired charges. Just because you do not provide a name does not terminate those investigations. You are just facing obstruct plus dangerous plus impaired if that is the case.

ops

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Unread post by rank on

screeech wrote:You are missing my point...no matter what name the driver gives, they can pull up that persons picture, if it doesn't match then the criminal investigation begins...There are many other investigative steps as well, not just with the picture...
OK so.....driver is pulled over for RIDE, blows .09 and is about to charged with impaired.

Officer: DL, ins, registration please.
Driver: Do I have to give it to you?
Officer: No.
Driver: Then I won't.
Officer: You are being arrested for obstruction and suspicion of DUI. I am taking you to the station for brethalyzer. You have the right to remain silent.....
Driver: OK

Meanwhile, back at the station.....

Driver is given brethalyzer and fails. Driver is finger printed, but since there are no prints on file that leads nowhere. Officer runs the plates on the car and sees that it is registered to Ted Nugent of Toronto, ON. He pulls up all the Ted Nugent's lisenced in ON and finds a picture of his guy. Officer charges Ted with impaired, obstruction and failing to surrender DL.

He is held until his arrainment at which time the judge says "state your name". Ted says "Nope, I ain't gonna". Crown says, "Here is the DL photo judge. It's Ted. We have our man". Judge says in the absence of a defense, I find you guilty.......Ted.

Sound about right?

Moral of the story: If you're going to drink and drive, steal a car *(note sarcasm intended, for those that thought I was offering advice LOL).


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Unread post by Decatur on

Take away all the criminal stuff mentioned, it's also an arrestable offence under the HTA for a driver failing to identify. So if you decide to say nothing when the officer asks for your name, you can also sit in jail until you are identified. That includes a passenger that's not wearing a seatbelt.


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Unread post by argyll on

In the scenario above the officer would not answer no. The driver has to provide those things.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Unread post by screeech on

Wow...






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