Now I'm not against people in Law inforcement, and althought most of this may be obvious, there's no harm in having a discussion about it. The Ontario Justice system is purposely setup to generate revenue, and inconvenience citizens who want to dispute or make answer to a charge..which results in them, not willing to spend the time to prove their innocence (that is if they are..). The government has invested a lot of money in technology to grab cash from people, but have done nothing to help innocent people make full answer to any charge. You can pay all of your parking tickets, speeding tickets or any other infractions online at, how convenient (minus the extra charges that they add on for the service). But how come you can't request a trial date to dispute the charge online? Why can't the prosecutors office make it easier for defendents to request disclosure or certain documents that are vital to proving one's guilt? I've seen no progress in terms of helping those who are "innocent until proven guilty" make full answer to any charges. All I see are huge line ups outside a Provincial offense office full of people wanting to set a trial date. The Provincial Offense office is always bottle-necked, and Prosecutors are already up to their eyeballs in people wanting to meet them in court to dispute a charge. Having said that, typically people go to court to dispute charges, most walk in and settle for a plea bargain deal that the prosecutor offers them (not news to anyone on here). Seeing people come in and out like hens at a slaughter house, some of the people might actually be innocent and yet, they have no knowledge of their rights, and their fear of the whole court system results in them settling for a plea bargain deal. Not everyone is in position to pay large sums of money hire a paralegal or lawyer to defend them, and the prosecutors, JP, officers know that. I have never seen a JP stand up for the rights of an individual who has absolutely no idea what their rights are, or how to defend themself in court. It goes without saying.. You only have rights, if you know what they are. It's just my opinion :)
Now I'm not against people in Law inforcement, and althought most of this may be obvious, there's no harm in having a discussion about it. The Ontario Justice system is purposely setup to generate revenue, and inconvenience citizens who want to dispute or make answer to a charge..which results in them, not willing to spend the time to prove their innocence (that is if they are..).
The government has invested a lot of money in technology to grab cash from people, but have done nothing to help innocent people make full answer to any charge. You can pay all of your parking tickets, speeding tickets or any other infractions online at, how convenient (minus the extra charges that they add on for the service). But how come you can't request a trial date to dispute the charge online? Why can't the prosecutors office make it easier for defendents to request disclosure or certain documents that are vital to proving one's guilt?
I've seen no progress in terms of helping those who are "innocent until proven guilty" make full answer to any charges. All I see are huge line ups outside a Provincial offense office full of people wanting to set a trial date. The Provincial Offense office is always bottle-necked, and Prosecutors are already up to their eyeballs in people wanting to meet them in court to dispute a charge.
Having said that, typically people go to court to dispute charges, most walk in and settle for a plea bargain deal that the prosecutor offers them (not news to anyone on here). Seeing people come in and out like hens at a slaughter house, some of the people might actually be innocent and yet, they have no knowledge of their rights, and their fear of the whole court system results in them settling for a plea bargain deal.
Not everyone is in position to pay large sums of money hire a paralegal or lawyer to defend them, and the prosecutors, JP, officers know that. I have never seen a JP stand up for the rights of an individual who has absolutely no idea what their rights are, or how to defend themself in court.
It goes without saying.. You only have rights, if you know what they are. It's just my opinion
Last edited by KiX on Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
I would guess that b/c it would be way worse than the snail mailing system, people ask for a trial, tie up court time and do not show. Maybe a $500-1000 penalty should be imposed to anyone that does not show to trial after requesting one? I don't know much about disclosure side. I submit copy notes, copy of PON. Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty) 1) plead guilty 2) plead guilty with time to pay 3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B) 4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee. JP's will not let rights be violated. JP's will not offer suggestions of defence nor will JP's offer suggestions of prosecution Maybe an alternative is the prosecution submits a willsay and so does defence and JP reads both and makes a decision.
KiX wrote:
But how come you can't request a trial date to dispute the charge online?
I would guess that b/c it would be way worse than the snail mailing system, people ask for a trial, tie up court time and do not show. Maybe a $500-1000 penalty should be imposed to anyone that does not show to trial after requesting one?
Why can't the prosecutors office make it easier for defendents to request disclosure or certain documents that are vital to proving one's guilt?
I don't know much about disclosure side. I submit copy notes, copy of PON.
I've seen no progress in terms of helping those who are "innocent until proven guilty" make full answer to any charges. All I see are huge line ups outside a Provincial offense office full of people wanting to set a trial date. The Provincial Offense office is always bottle-necked, and Prosecutors are already up to their eyeballs in people wanting to meet them in court to dispute a charge.
Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty)
1) plead guilty
2) plead guilty with time to pay
3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)
4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee.
I have never seen a JP stand up for the rights of an individual who has absolutely no idea what their rights are, or how to defend themself in court.
JP's will not let rights be violated.
JP's will not offer suggestions of defence
nor will JP's offer suggestions of prosecution
Maybe an alternative is the prosecution submits a willsay and so does defence and JP reads both and makes a decision.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated. I agree, however the downside to that is we'd pay higher taxes, more user fees, and probably have bigger fines if we did try to make it more convenient. I know, it shouldn't be that way, but it is...
hwybear wrote:
Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty)
1) plead guilty
2) plead guilty with time to pay
3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)
4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee.
Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated.
KiX wrote:
The Ontario Justice system is purposely setup to generate revenue, and inconvenience citizens who want to dispute or make answer to a charge..which results in them, not willing to spend the time to prove their innocence (that is it they are..).
I agree, however the downside to that is we'd pay higher taxes, more user fees, and probably have bigger fines if we did try to make it more convenient. I know, it shouldn't be that way, but it is...
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated. ... that's a really good idea too
Radar Identified wrote:
hwybear wrote:
Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty)
1) plead guilty
2) plead guilty with time to pay
3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)
4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee.
Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated.
...
that's a really good idea too
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got a ticket, Disobey stop sign, sec 136.1.a on dec 6th
I made a left in an intersection and was pulled over by a police officer in an unmarked car who had been sitting down the road. A classic fishing hole situation. I was genuinely surprised when he stopped me and told me I went through a stop sign without even slowing down. I know to shut up and be polite and take the ticket. I…
Yesterday morning, I rear-ended someone. I was going the speed limit. The sun was directly in front of me and it blinded my windshield and my eyes. At the same time, the person in front of me stopped/slowed down (also due to the sun). I started to slow down but didn't stop and I hit them since I couldn't see anything. I was not driving too close initially. I…
I was driving in the county at night and hit a limousine stretched out side ways across the road. The limo had its lights on and had side lighting as well. The police officer charged me with careless driving because it was "fully lit up".
It took me to the next day to figure out what had happened - what I remember made no sense. What I had run across was a "false visual reference" illusion.
I was on hwy 37 trying to make my girlfriends ganadmas mass and I live an hour away and I had an hour to get there so I was going fast but not 50 over untill some idiot got on my tail soo close that I was to concentrated on him that I kept going faster untill I got pulled over at 147 on an 80 km hwy.
I alreaddy lost 3 points and this time was just the…
Hello, got stopped today for rolling a stop sign. Ticket says failure to stop, but quotes hta 1361b.
Doesn't 1361b mean failure to yield?
Is this a fatal error? Or could it be amended at trial. How can I prepare a defence if I don't know if I'm defending the failure to stop or the failure to yield?
After he was providing me with a ticket for failure to obey to the stop sign (I am pretty sure I stopped but less than 3 seconds recommended by my driver ed. instructor), I know everybody say that..as an excuse.
Then he stopped me again to return the documents.
Any advice and feed back would be really appreciated.
Can you get evidence for whether someone had an advanced green at an intersection? My dad was making a right turn on a red (after stopping) into a plaza parking lot. He got hit by someone making a left turn from the opposite lane. The driver told the officer called to the collision that he had an advance green. My dad said he came out of nowhere which makes me…
So i was driving on Eglinton Avenue East near Rosemount Ave.
The school bus was on the the curb on the opposite side of the road while i was travelling on the middle lane of the three-laned Eglinton Avenue East (five lanes apart plus a raised median island seperating the traffic)
I could not see the school bus as my view of the bus was being obstructed by the cars in front of me and on my left hand…
Lots of good information on getting disclosure from the Crown here.
Now, I am just wondering if I will be relying upon evidence of my own at trial... do I have to voluntarily send this material to the Crown in a reasonable time before the trial, or only if they request disclosure from me?
This morning I had an exam for university. I was studying the entire night and i wanted to catch like maybe 1-2 hours of sleep before the exam so i went to sleep. I woke up like 5 hrs after and realize that I was about to miss my exam. I still could have made it so I asked my dad for his car since I was in a huge rush and he gave it to me.
I went on the highway and I was going at 135 km/h but…
the police officer was in in the opesite oncumming lane he was fallowing another car so close that i was not even able to see his cruser till he was buy he said that i was going 111 in a 80 he said he hade me on radar he only asked for me drivers licencs and never asked for my insurence so on the ticket there no insurence dose enyone think i can beat this i wana take it to cort becuse he was…
Hi I have a couple questions so I'll explain my situation and any advice would be appreciated.
Can't remember exact date so lets call it some time in 2008 I got a fine for $5000.00 for driving without in insurance. I never paid the fine and in 2012 I was pulled over and the officer asked to see my license. Although I had it on me I figured it would be under suspension for the unpaid fine from…
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I recently received a ticket for failure to use low beams - while following - Ticket was issued Sec 168 (
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I received a warning letter from MTO for a 2pts ticket.What happened is that the police officer issued a "unsafe left turn" and then changed the ticket to "failed to signal" at the scene, but she submitted both tickets!!! And I !!!ONLY!!! received the latter ticket from her(I requested trial for "failed to signal"). I recently received notice from MTO that I'm convicted for "unsafe left turn".
Hello everyone! I was given a ticket for using a hand-held communication device while driving. It was 3 am, I was at a stop light and the cop saw me with the my phone in my hand. I told him i was just checking the time on it. I received the notes a few weeks ago ill copy them down below. Any help is appreciated although i believe there's no hope for me. The cop recorded me saying what phone i…
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I requested for disclosure of information two months ago.
I received the radar manual after one month, but not others (including maintenance/calibration record of the radar, certificate of police training). On further pursuit, the prosecutor told me that he did not have them and he did not see why I needed these documents. He said he did not know where to get them when I asked.
Last Friday I was pulled over by an OPP motorcycle cop who informed me I was going 134. I was on the SB 404, I did see him parked under a bridge and when I passed him he was not on his bike.
I'm hoping to get some insight for a defense in this case.
I was in lane 1 and I had a car in front of me, and a car behind me, also there was a car speeding down Lane 3 passing everyone and moved quickly into…
