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failure to surrender insurance card
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:40 am
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Just wondering what this incident means...........

My wife got caught not making a full stop - no contest.

However, also got a "ticket" for failure to surrender card - but she did but it was expired.
She found the good card after that mistake and gave it to the officer.

However she still got a "ticket" but it says Total Payable $0

Sh what's up with that? Is there anything she has to do with this thing???
Does she still have to sign off as guilty but pay nothing?

Kevin


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:23 pm 
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Its a warning. Nothing needs to be done. It is just a way to track internally that she has been made aware that she has to have a valid insurance card ready to produce.

If she is pulled over again in the future and now cannot claim that she did not know.

OPS


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:14 pm 
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yes well, we all hear about anal policies / laws / over zealous police officers etc.

yes police officers are open to all sorts of criticism but really............

you have 2 insurance cards in the car, the expired one and the new one.

you're asked to produce and the you give the wrong one.

however, the officer is still there and you give him the correct one, inside of 2 minutes.
This is still a failure to produce? A warning for what, making a simple mistake that was corrected immediately in the presence of said officer?
Oh if I could only be so perfect as a police officer.
As a warning will there be text there to say that the card was produced - immediately after the wrong one?
It s hard to understand police when this kind of stuff goes on.


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:53 am 
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Under the Act it must be upon request, not when you find it. She got a warning when she could have gotten a ticket. I say it's still a good warning.


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:56 am 
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At least all you got was a warning. I forgot to put my new card in the car, only 2 weeks after renewal, and got a $65 ticket for it. No warning etc. Really annoying when all he information on the card is still correct, same name, policy# etc. just a date. To be honest it is the first time I have renewed an insurance policy in Canada and I didn't even realize that you needed to change the card every year, not that that is a defence, just adds to the annoyance.


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:02 am 
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yes I appreciate this but I'm talking about the proper card in a matter of minutes - not weeks.

the card was in the car - just the wrong one given first.

oh well, I guess I'm the only one that finds this absurd so I'll forget this and let it go.


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:56 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
kwigle wrote:
yes I appreciate this but I'm talking about the proper card in a matter of minutes - not weeks.

the card was in the car - just the wrong one given first..


I issue a fair amount of insurance card offences and warn for a demerit point offence. If someone produces a 2nd insurance card when I go back up to the car, I will still issue the offence notice.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:00 am 
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Law is law, the officer is there to enforce it, not debate it. I'd hazard a guess that the police record warning like this in an effort to track fraudsters. If someone has a collection of old insurance slips, licences or whatever lying around it would raise a red flag.

I've known several people in the past who will insure their car, put plates on it then cancel the insurance, and continue driving for years. So for reasons like this expired insurance slips might raise an eyebrow, and the police (in general) would want to keep track of it. Just my opinion.


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:35 am 
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Plus here we use electronic ticketing. Once we hit print the ticket is electronically submitted. Therefore there is nothing to tear up.

You say the slip is the same as the new one same company and policy. How is the cop supposed to know that. For all he knows the vehicle has no insurance as the slip is expired.

OPS


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:51 pm 
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so if insurance company sends new pink slips before the renewal date, but instead of renewing you cancel

keep the slips, what does the insurance company do? do they tell the MTO to flag the plate/VIN?

what does the term plates unattached mean?

what do LEO see when they punch in the plate in their mobile database? can they see if it's insured or not? do they have to call 1-800-Number of the insurer @ roadside or later during business hours, to see if the policy is still valid?


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
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Location: Ontario
1) No, there would be no flag.
2) It means the licence plates aren't registered to a specific car, so in most cases they can't be used until registered to a different car.
3) It's starting to be possible. It's not perfect, but there is a centralized database that police can now access. Sometimes the provider still needs to be contacted to verify.


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Location: Toronto
It used to be that police had no way of knowing if the vehicle was insured or not, except for the presentation of the slip. As Stanton says, they are in the process of creating the centralized database and giving all police access to it (should've been done a LONG time ago). In a lot of US states, police can run the licence plate # and it will tell them if the vehicle is insured or not. In those cases, the insurance company notifies the state DMV (or the equivalent) when an insurance policy is in effect; the second it is cancelled, they notify the DMV of the same. In some cases, failure to pay your insurance results in a licence suspension (e.g. Florida).

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:01 pm 
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I have no problems with them issuing a ticket as you say, how do they know you are telling the truth if you say you forgot to put the new one in your car, but for someone with a clean record it would be nice for a warning, logged somewhere so it is a one time thing, or like they did when I lived in the UK which is you have a window of time to go to the local police station and verify your documents. So if you get pulled over and reach for your wallet to show your licence, or insurance or whatever, and you realize you left it in your other pants, coat whatever. You have a period of time, can't recall how long say 48 hours, to turn up at the police station and present your valid document to avoid the fine/ticket etc. That way you are not punished for something as simple as forgetting a piece of paper which has no consequence to anyone (providing you are actually licenced, insuraed etc.)

Really I don't even have that much of an issue with paying the fine, it is all the talk of convictions staying on yoru record and affecting your insurance rate that is the thing that frustrates. It would be ironic to receive an insurance rate increase because you forgot to put your new insurance card in the car...

In my case it was more frustrating that it was a second ticket in addition to the disobey sign, which in its self was a simple error, turning the wrong way out of a parking lot, on a quiet residential street (i.e. not running a stop sign into a junction where you could cause a collision etc.). So for someone who has never even been pulled over or ticketed or even got a parking ticket in 15 years of driving it is frustrating to have a simple error like missing a turn restriction sign and forgetting yoru new insurance card in your car suddenly turn into nearly $200 infines, 2 demerit points, 2 (potential) convictions etc.

My issue isn't with the offences themselves, they are what they are and people make mistakes etc. it just seems that the punishment is a little out of balance to the offence. When you already try and follow the rules of the road, as opposed to intentionally breaking them i.e. speeding, running stop signs, talking on cell phones etc, and still you know that there are police cars hidden around junctions just waiting for you to make one tiny mistake, it kind of takes the enjoyment out of driving. Especially in the city where there are so many signs, lane restrictions, turn restrictions, time based rules etc. I find myself almost paranoid about missing a sign and makign the same kind of small error etc.


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Re: failure to surrender insurance card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:09 pm 
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The warning does not go on a record. It is only tracked internally in the police service. There is no conviction.

OPS


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