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Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:53 am
Posts: 7
Hi all,

On July 24, 2013, I was driving to work on a spare tire took a sharp corner and my spare tire popped off, ruining my car. While I was waiting for my dad to come to the site, an old lady had already called the cops and told them I was careless driving. Within a few minutes, the cops came to the site and he charged me with careless driving. I didn't hit anybody or anything. At the time, I only had my G2 license with no prior tickets or accidents.

I was convicted on September 10, 2013, with Careless Driving a 30-day suspension and a fine. I'm an idiot and didn't know what to do, I also didn't pay attention to any suspension letters - so I didn't surrender my license. Thinking that my license would just automatically be suspended itself and I could pick up a new one in 30 days. Keep in mind, my car was old and when the tire popped off, it ruined my axle and the damage was already more than the cars worth, which made it a write-off. So I didn't have a car after my conviction, no need to drive around.

My mom, also not knowing much, decided to help her son out by paying for my ticket. So she paid around $500 for the ticket. Stupid move, I know.

I then moved to another city and didn't need a car, or insurance. So it was the least of my worries. I didn't even go to a ServiceOntario to get my new license because I didn't have a need for it and thought I could just have it reissued at any time after my 30-day suspension is over. So a couple months later, in April 2014 I visited a ServiceOntario and was told I never surrendered my license, therefore, I need to hand it in now and wait for another 30-days...so a month later, May 2014 I was reissued my license.

I ordered my driving abstract (find below):

2013/09/10 CARELESS DRIVING
OFFENCE DATE 2013/07/24

2013/09/24 SUSPENDED UNTIL MAY 4, 2014 ,
DEMERIT POINTS - NOVICE ESCALATING SUSPENSION.
SUSPENSION NO. 3139366

2014/05/04 REINST - SUSP. EXPIRED OR RESCINDED
SUSPENSION NO. 3139366

CURRENT DEMERIT POINTS TOTAL 00
****** END OF RECORD/FIN DU DOSSIER ******


Here are my questions...

1. Is there any way I can get a lawyer to open up this case once again to help clear it or reduce the offense, after the fact that the ticket has been paid?

2. Initially, I was told I had a 30-day suspension. Since I never surrendered my license until 8 months later...does that mean by suspension went from 30-day to 9 months on my record?

3. What is a novice escalating suspension?

4. What does it mean by Current Demerit Points Total 00? Did they reduce my demerit points from 6 (the usual careless driving points) to 0?

Any answers or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:04 am 
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Jr. Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:31 pm
Posts: 65
https://www.ontario.ca/page/understandi ... rit-points

This link answers your questions 3 and 4.

As a G2 driver you face additional consequences for some matters. Demerit points do not stay on your record forever - they disappear after two years. So at present you have no points.


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:32 am 
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High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
Pretty sure you can not do anything about the charge now.
When you are found guilty of a charge you never knew about, you can get it re-opened when you find out about it, but this does not apply to you.
When you are found guilty of charge that you do know about, you have 30 days to file for an appeal, but you are long past this point.

I believe the careless driving charge only stays on your record for 3-years, so if you go ask for another abstract on September 11, it should be gone.

By not surrendering your license you essentially gave yourself a 9 month suspension. The suspension part should go away by September 25th but most likely the reinstatement line will not go away until May 2017.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:24 pm 
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Sr. Member

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:20 am
Posts: 324
It shows no points for the careless driving because your suspension was your penalty, not the points. You get a suspension or points, not both. The escalating suspension thing is where as a novice you got a 30 day suspension this time, next time it escalates and you will get a longer suspension.


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:53 am
Posts: 7
screeech wrote:
It shows no points for the careless driving because your suspension was your penalty, not the points. You get a suspension or points, not both. The escalating suspension thing is where as a novice you got a 30 day suspension this time, next time it escalates and you will get a longer suspension.


Thanks for this. My other question for you all...since my 30 day suspension ended up becoming a 9-month suspension (*EDIT*), will insurance companies see this as a 30-day suspension or will they consider it a 9-month suspension. When they ask me if you've ever had a suspension in the past 3 years...do I say "yes, a 30-day novice suspension" or do I say "yes, I had a 9-month suspension"?


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:53 am
Posts: 7
Mugwug wrote:
https://www.ontario.ca/page/understanding-demerit-points

This link answers your questions 3 and 4.

As a G2 driver you face additional consequences for some matters. Demerit points do not stay on your record forever - they disappear after two years. So at present you have no points.


Thanks for the feedback. Do insurance companies take consideration the demerit points or the offense? I'm planning on getting a car for work soon and I want to know what I should prepare when going to see a broker or speaking to an insurance company.


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
It's a 30-day suspension only. It just did not officially start until you turned in your drivers license.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:53 am
Posts: 7
jsherk wrote:
It's a 30-day suspension only. It just did not officially start until you turned in your drivers license.


Perfect a 30-day suspension is a lot better than a 9-month suspension! You've been a great help, thank you. I wish I had just taken this to a lawyer and had them fight it, but I didn't think that far.


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:57 pm 
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Jr. Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:31 pm
Posts: 65
as7266 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. Do insurance companies take consideration the demerit points or the offense? I'm planning on getting a car for work soon and I want to know what I should prepare when going to see a broker or speaking to an insurance company.


Your insurance company does not care about points (these are used by the MTO) just minor and major offences (and these vary a bit between insurers). I would expect careless would count as a major though.


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:54 pm
Posts: 3
as7266 wrote:
Hi all,

On July 24, 2013, I was driving to work on a spare tire took a sharp corner and my spare tire popped off, ruining my car. While I was waiting for my dad to come to the site, an old lady had already called the cops and told them I was careless driving. Within a few minutes, the cops came to the site and he charged me with careless driving. I didn't hit anybody or anything. At the time, I only had my G2 license with no prior tickets or accidents.

I was convicted on September 10, 2013, with Careless Driving a 30-day suspension and a fine. I'm an idiot and didn't know what to do, I also didn't pay attention to any suspension letters - so I didn't surrender my license. Thinking that my license would just automatically be suspended itself and I could pick up a new one in 30 days. Keep in mind, my car was old and when the tire popped off, it ruined my axle and the damage was already more than the cars worth, which made it a write-off. So I didn't have a car after my conviction, no need to drive around.

My mom, also not knowing much, decided to help her son out by paying for my ticket. So she paid around $500 for the ticket. Stupid move, I know.

I then moved to another city and didn't need a car, or insurance. So it was the least of my worries. I didn't even go to a ServiceOntario to get my new license because I didn't have a need for it and thought I could just have it reissued at any time after my 30-day suspension is over. So a couple months later, in April 2014 I visited a ServiceOntario and was told I never surrendered my license, therefore, I need to hand it in now and wait for another 30-days...so a month later, May 2014 I was reissued my license.

I ordered my driving abstract (find below):

2013/09/10 CARELESS DRIVING
OFFENCE DATE 2013/07/24

2013/09/24 SUSPENDED UNTIL MAY 4, 2014 ,
DEMERIT POINTS - NOVICE ESCALATING SUSPENSION.
SUSPENSION NO. 3139366

2014/05/04 REINST - SUSP. EXPIRED OR RESCINDED
SUSPENSION NO. 3139366

CURRENT DEMERIT POINTS TOTAL 00
****** END OF RECORD/FIN DU DOSSIER ******


Here are my questions...

1. Is there any way I can get a lawyer to open up this case once again to help clear it or reduce the offense, after the fact that the ticket has been paid?

2. Initially, I was told I had a 30-day suspension. Since I never surrendered my license until 8 months later...does that mean by suspension went from 30-day to 9 months on my record?

3. What is a novice escalating suspension?

4. What does it mean by Current Demerit Points Total 00? Did they reduce my demerit points from 6 (the usual careless driving points) to 0?

Any answers or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!



how would that be a careless charge? if he did not witness it?


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:06 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:53 am
Posts: 7
bulldozerbert wrote:
as7266 wrote:
Hi all,

On July 24, 2013, I was driving to work on a spare tire took a sharp corner and my spare tire popped off, ruining my car. While I was waiting for my dad to come to the site, an old lady had already called the cops and told them I was careless driving. Within a few minutes, the cops came to the site and he charged me with careless driving. I didn't hit anybody or anything. At the time, I only had my G2 license with no prior tickets or accidents.

I was convicted on September 10, 2013, with Careless Driving a 30-day suspension and a fine. I'm an idiot and didn't know what to do, I also didn't pay attention to any suspension letters - so I didn't surrender my license. Thinking that my license would just automatically be suspended itself and I could pick up a new one in 30 days. Keep in mind, my car was old and when the tire popped off, it ruined my axle and the damage was already more than the cars worth, which made it a write-off. So I didn't have a car after my conviction, no need to drive around.

My mom, also not knowing much, decided to help her son out by paying for my ticket. So she paid around $500 for the ticket. Stupid move, I know.

I then moved to another city and didn't need a car, or insurance. So it was the least of my worries. I didn't even go to a ServiceOntario to get my new license because I didn't have a need for it and thought I could just have it reissued at any time after my 30-day suspension is over. So a couple months later, in April 2014 I visited a ServiceOntario and was told I never surrendered my license, therefore, I need to hand it in now and wait for another 30-days...so a month later, May 2014 I was reissued my license.

I ordered my driving abstract (find below):

2013/09/10 CARELESS DRIVING
OFFENCE DATE 2013/07/24

2013/09/24 SUSPENDED UNTIL MAY 4, 2014 ,
DEMERIT POINTS - NOVICE ESCALATING SUSPENSION.
SUSPENSION NO. 3139366

2014/05/04 REINST - SUSP. EXPIRED OR RESCINDED
SUSPENSION NO. 3139366

CURRENT DEMERIT POINTS TOTAL 00
****** END OF RECORD/FIN DU DOSSIER ******


Here are my questions...

1. Is there any way I can get a lawyer to open up this case once again to help clear it or reduce the offense, after the fact that the ticket has been paid?

2. Initially, I was told I had a 30-day suspension. Since I never surrendered my license until 8 months later...does that mean by suspension went from 30-day to 9 months on my record?

3. What is a novice escalating suspension?

4. What does it mean by Current Demerit Points Total 00? Did they reduce my demerit points from 6 (the usual careless driving points) to 0?

Any answers or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!



how would that be a careless charge? if he did not witness it?


His words were...I should have known better than to drive on a spare time and speed around the corner because this is unsafe and it could have harmed somebody...I wish I had been smart enough to just get a lawyer for this


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:30 pm 
Offline
High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
It's careless driving because that was the charge the officer laid and as7266 plead Guilty to it. When you plead guilty to a charge, then you are agreeing that you are guilty of that charge.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:20 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:53 am
Posts: 7
jsherk wrote:
It's careless driving because that was the charge the officer laid and as7266 plead Guilty to it. When you plead guilty to a charge, then you are agreeing that you are guilty of that charge.


Very true. My fault completely. Next time I'll be a lot smarter since I have all of this information. It also doesn't help that I was a fairly new driver, lol.


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:27 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 1045
Mugwug wrote:
as7266 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. Do insurance companies take consideration the demerit points or the offense? I'm planning on getting a car for work soon and I want to know what I should prepare when going to see a broker or speaking to an insurance company.


Your insurance company does not care about points (these are used by the MTO) just minor and major offences (and these vary a bit between insurers). I would expect careless would count as a major though.



It's actually labelled as a serious offense. Careless driving is the worst of the worst according to most, if not all, insurance providers. It's the equivalent of driving with no insurance, racing, 50+ over speed limit, impaired driving, dangerous driving, etc. If they agree to provide insurance, you're paying at least a 100% surcharge on top of normal rates.


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Re: Careless Driving. Suspension. Demerit Points Explanation
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:53 am
Posts: 7
bend wrote:
Mugwug wrote:
as7266 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. Do insurance companies take consideration the demerit points or the offense? I'm planning on getting a car for work soon and I want to know what I should prepare when going to see a broker or speaking to an insurance company.


Your insurance company does not care about points (these are used by the MTO) just minor and major offences (and these vary a bit between insurers). I would expect careless would count as a major though.



It's actually labelled as a serious offense. Careless driving is the worst of the worst according to most, if not all, insurance providers. It's the equivalent of driving with no insurance, racing, 50+ over speed limit, impaired driving, dangerous driving, etc. If they agree to provide insurance, you're paying at least a 100% surcharge on top of normal rates.


Thanks for the insight and the feedback. I think it's best to just wait till it's been 3 years after my conviction date to look into buying a car and getting insurance. Most of the insurance companies I've talked to said they look at my 3 year history.


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