After doing some searching and reading here, and over at Ticket Combat, I'm a bit confused on what info I should provide when filing for disclosure. I have read that I shouldn't provide my phone number, to protect myself from potential future hearsay arguments, and get everything in writing. But have also read that Toronto no longer mails out Request for Disclosure packages, or notification for pickup. If I do not provide a contact # how are they supposed to notify me. Thanks
After doing some searching and reading here, and over at Ticket Combat, I'm a bit confused on what info I should provide when filing for disclosure. I have read that I shouldn't provide my phone number, to protect myself from potential future hearsay arguments, and get everything in writing. But have also read that Toronto no longer mails out Request for Disclosure packages, or notification for pickup. If I do not provide a contact # how are they supposed to notify me.
I think there's mixed opinions on that bit of advice. In my opinion it would be difficult to argue in Court you never received disclosure because you refused to provide your phone number. It can quite rightfully look like a stalling tactic.
I think there's mixed opinions on that bit of advice. In my opinion it would be difficult to argue in Court you never received disclosure because you refused to provide your phone number. It can quite rightfully look like a stalling tactic.
I'm curious to get input from some of the more court experienced users on here regarding this. For one, there's no information available online regarding anything to do with Toronto's Prosecutors on an official level. A blanket court form is made available on the toronto.ca website which asks for a telephone number, but isn't an adequate defense request and shouldn't be used. Now, why is it that the Prosecutor isn't required by law to use an official method of contacting the defense when it comes to disclosure? And how come it's considered bad that one does not provide a phone number? In my case, I'm not at home often and am not privy to checking voicemail since I receive a lot of "Spam" calls. Giving me notice in writing [as is required by law for a lot of other things] is the best method of reaching me. It just doesn't make sense, especially since as a citizen I have the right to represent myself and be offered full constitutional rights without prejudice. They make it very hard to follow the rules, especially if it's not easily available.
I'm curious to get input from some of the more court experienced users on here regarding this.
For one, there's no information available online regarding anything to do with Toronto's Prosecutors on an official level. A blanket court form is made available on the toronto.ca website which asks for a telephone number, but isn't an adequate defense request and shouldn't be used. Now, why is it that the Prosecutor isn't required by law to use an official method of contacting the defense when it comes to disclosure? And how come it's considered bad that one does not provide a phone number? In my case, I'm not at home often and am not privy to checking voicemail since I receive a lot of "Spam" calls. Giving me notice in writing [as is required by law for a lot of other things] is the best method of reaching me. It just doesn't make sense, especially since as a citizen I have the right to represent myself and be offered full constitutional rights without prejudice. They make it very hard to follow the rules, especially if it's not easily available.
http://www.toronto.ca/city_directory/pd ... rvices.pdf For ease of others, here is the disclosure form you mention http://www.toronto.ca/court_services/fo ... equest.pdf The form still allows people to obtain disclosure/ evidence the crown has. Due to the vast amount/variety of cases the court can't possibly make a disclosure form to satisfy everyone's needs or what they "perceive" is a need. It appears by the Toronto site that disclosure is "not" mailed out and must be picked up in person, thus the need for a phone # to call you and tell you when it is available....just a guess.
mnstrcck wrote:
For one, there's no information available online regarding anything to do with Toronto's Prosecutors on an official level.
A blanket court form is made available on the toronto.ca website which asks for a telephone number, but isn't an adequate defense request and shouldn't be used.
For ease of others, here is the disclosure form you mention
The form still allows people to obtain disclosure/ evidence the crown has. Due to the vast amount/variety of cases the court can't possibly make a disclosure form to satisfy everyone's needs or what they "perceive" is a need.
Now, why is it that the Prosecutor isn't required by law to use an official method of contacting the defense when it comes to disclosure? And how come it's considered bad that one does not provide a phone number?
It appears by the Toronto site that disclosure is "not" mailed out and must be picked up in person, thus the need for a phone # to call you and tell you when it is available....just a guess.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
I think the reason traffic courts do things this way (ask for you phone number, want to call you instead of write, won't mail anything out) is because if they didn't do it that way, they simply wouldn't be able to handle the volume of requests that they get for disclosure. I don't think they are violating your right to disclosure by requesting that you provide a phone number or pick it up yourself. Since you still have the ability to obtain the disclosure you want (albiet not under the conditions you want), I think a court would have a hard time finding your right to disclosure was violated if you refused to pick it up or didn't give them a phone number so they couldn't contact you.
I think the reason traffic courts do things this way (ask for you phone number, want to call you instead of write, won't mail anything out) is because if they didn't do it that way, they simply wouldn't be able to handle the volume of requests that they get for disclosure. I don't think they are violating your right to disclosure by requesting that you provide a phone number or pick it up yourself.
Since you still have the ability to obtain the disclosure you want (albiet not under the conditions you want), I think a court would have a hard time finding your right to disclosure was violated if you refused to pick it up or didn't give them a phone number so they couldn't contact you.
Thanks for the input. I sent it in before there were any responses to this thread. It made sense to me to fax it in with my phone # on it., so I did. Re: Potential hearsay arguments... Information obtained based on phone calls, can just end up in testimony as "He said...She said..." with no actual physical proof of what was really said. Having physical written proof of any exchange of information, would outweigh someone's personal recollection.
Thanks for the input.
I sent it in before there were any responses to this thread. It made sense to me to fax it in with my phone # on it., so I did.
Re: Potential hearsay arguments... Information obtained based on phone calls, can just end up in testimony as "He said...She said..." with no actual physical proof of what was really said. Having physical written proof of any exchange of information, would outweigh someone's personal recollection.
That's not quite right. Regardless of whether something is written down, the courts generally prefer the actual oral testimony (which is sworn) over any previous written statements (which are unsworn) when the 2 conflict. Prior inconsistent statements can be used to impeach a witnesses credibility at trail however. This is not the same as hearsay. Hearsay is evidence given by the person testifying about what another person said. Courts don't like that for the same reason as they don't prefer prior unsworn statements over live sworn testimony - because neither is in accordance with the "best evidence rule", which says that courts should always prefer the best evidence available. Now there are many exceptions to hearsay, but generally the court doesn't want people testifying about others said; the person who said it should be the one who is testifying about it.
Novus wrote:
Re: Potential hearsay arguments... Information obtained based on phone calls, can just end up in testimony as "He said...She said..." with no actual physical proof of what was really said. Having physical written proof of any exchange of information, would outweigh someone's personal recollection.
That's not quite right. Regardless of whether something is written down, the courts generally prefer the actual oral testimony (which is sworn) over any previous written statements (which are unsworn) when the 2 conflict. Prior inconsistent statements can be used to impeach a witnesses credibility at trail however.
This is not the same as hearsay. Hearsay is evidence given by the person testifying about what another person said. Courts don't like that for the same reason as they don't prefer prior unsworn statements over live sworn testimony - because neither is in accordance with the "best evidence rule", which says that courts should always prefer the best evidence available. Now there are many exceptions to hearsay, but generally the court doesn't want people testifying about others said; the person who said it should be the one who is testifying about it.
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very…
I was recently pulled over for running a red and I wasnt able to find my wallet in the car at the time to hand over my license. I had a passport in the vehicle that he used. The wallet was in the vehicle, it just fell through the seats. (Tough to find a black leather wallet in a black/black leather truck at night).
The officer still wrote the tickets for both he signed the one ticket (failure to…
I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.