Hi All, I am new to this forum and before making this post I did some digging and was unable to find anything on this method of officer note taking. A little back ground of my case: charged with 25km/h over the posted limit. After numerous disclosure requests, finally received a detailed disclosure including several pages of the lidar manual and typed officer notes describing the events of my infraction and testing procedures performed. I've requested the officer's hand written notes, however was informed that Durham Region now uses "Transcribed Electronic Notes and tickets" and that handwritten notes are no longer available. Court date mid march, only 10 months after ticket issued. :( My question is, how are these notes made? My initial thought was that officers type their notes directly into the computer, however, when I hear "transcribed" I assume that the officer makes verbal notes/dictation into his onboard computer and then someone (the officer??) later types them out. In the disclosure, there was no indication as to who typed the notes out - only that they "generated" several days after my last disclosure request. Any help or insight is much appreciated as to how or when these notes are made and how they come into a typed version. Thanks in advance, Toby
Hi All,
I am new to this forum and before making this post I did some digging and was unable to find anything on this method of officer note taking.
A little back ground of my case:
charged with 25km/h over the posted limit.
After numerous disclosure requests, finally received a detailed disclosure including several pages of the lidar manual and typed officer notes describing the events of my infraction and testing procedures performed.
I've requested the officer's hand written notes, however was informed that Durham Region now uses "Transcribed Electronic Notes and tickets" and that handwritten notes are no longer available.
Court date mid march, only 10 months after ticket issued.
My question is, how are these notes made? My initial thought was that officers type their notes directly into the computer, however, when I hear "transcribed" I assume that the officer makes verbal notes/dictation into his onboard computer and then someone (the officer??) later types them out. In the disclosure, there was no indication as to who typed the notes out - only that they "generated" several days after my last disclosure request.
Any help or insight is much appreciated as to how or when these notes are made and how they come into a typed version.
Simply put, if the officer uses his note pad and not the "electronic" notes you have a reason to question the accuracy of what you were given. Also, how much of the lidar manual did you request? If the pages you requested don't cover what you thought, ask for access to the whole thing and take your own notes. If you don't get access, you can argue improper disclosure and stay the charge.
Simply put, if the officer uses his note pad and not the "electronic" notes you have a reason to question the accuracy of what you were given. Also, how much of the lidar manual did you request? If the pages you requested don't cover what you thought, ask for access to the whole thing and take your own notes. If you don't get access, you can argue improper disclosure and stay the charge.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
I guess they've had a number of issues with people being unable to read officers' notes - hence the transcribed version. That way it nullifies the argument "I can't read the notes, therefore I didn't receive disclosure." As for accuracy, in court you could ask the officer if these are, indeed, a true and accurate representation of his notes. (He'll probably say "yes.") Go through the notes and see if all of the required elements are there: - Testing lidar before/after the start - Visual observation of your vehicle speeding - AFTER the visual observation, activate and use the device - "Without sight lost" or words to that effect are included - Identified driver (you) - Things like weather, traffic, etc., are in there as well Also review the testing and use procedure provided in the manual.
I guess they've had a number of issues with people being unable to read officers' notes - hence the transcribed version. That way it nullifies the argument "I can't read the notes, therefore I didn't receive disclosure." As for accuracy, in court you could ask the officer if these are, indeed, a true and accurate representation of his notes. (He'll probably say "yes.")
Go through the notes and see if all of the required elements are there:
- Testing lidar before/after the start
- Visual observation of your vehicle speeding
- AFTER the visual observation, activate and use the device
- "Without sight lost" or words to that effect are included
- Identified driver (you)
- Things like weather, traffic, etc., are in there as well
Also review the testing and use procedure provided in the manual.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Thank you both for your replies. When I met with the Crown it was explained to me that hand written notes are no longer used and the only notes available are these transcribed ones. I'm still confused as to how these notes are generated and how they become a printed version. I guess what I'm getting at is, I was hoping to challenge the legitimacy of the notes (if someone other than officer) typed them out and is not present in court to testify. At this point I know that the officer is the only witness the crown intends to call. Perhaps I'm grasping at straws... @Reflections In my disclosure request I asked for the entire operators manual for the particular unit used on that day. I was supplied with photocopies of the pages that outlined the maintenance, calibration/testing and proper operating procedures for the unit. However, it was stated in the disclosure (also followed up with a phone call) that the entire manual could be viewed in hardcopy at the prosecutor's office providing I gave them at least 15 minutes notice prior to my arrival. @Radar Identified Unfortunately, all those elements are contained in the notes. The only "inaccuracies" are, his notes state that he was at the intersection of x and y where he was actually situated several hundred meters east of that intersection and, the location where he stopped me, again, his notes indicate that he stopped at the the intersection of X and Y where he actually stopped me several hundred meters west of the intersection. All in all, the distance was approximately 700-800 meters from where his trap was set up. There is no indication in his notes as to how he pulled me over or how much time had elapsed, only that he "never" lost site of my vehicle. In regards to the testing and calibration steps performed, the notes state that 3 different tests were performed (I believe 4 are listed in the manual) however, in the cases that I've sat in on, the JP ruled that 3 tests is enough to demonstrate that the unit was operating with manufacturer's specifications. Thoughts? Again, thank you for your responses and for any further insight. Toby
Thank you both for your replies. When I met with the Crown it was explained to me that hand written notes are no longer used and the only notes available are these transcribed ones. I'm still confused as to how these notes are generated and how they become a printed version. I guess what I'm getting at is, I was hoping to challenge the legitimacy of the notes (if someone other than officer) typed them out and is not present in court to testify. At this point I know that the officer is the only witness the crown intends to call. Perhaps I'm grasping at straws...
@Reflections
In my disclosure request I asked for the entire operators manual for the particular unit used on that day.
I was supplied with photocopies of the pages that outlined the maintenance, calibration/testing and proper operating procedures for the unit. However, it was stated in the disclosure (also followed up with a phone call) that the entire manual could be viewed in hardcopy at the prosecutor's office providing I gave them at least 15 minutes notice prior to my arrival.
@Radar Identified
Unfortunately, all those elements are contained in the notes. The only "inaccuracies" are, his notes state that he was at the intersection of x and y where he was actually situated several hundred meters east of that intersection and, the location where he stopped me, again, his notes indicate that he stopped at the the intersection of X and Y where he actually stopped me several hundred meters west of the intersection. All in all, the distance was approximately 700-800 meters from where his trap was set up. There is no indication in his notes as to how he pulled me over or how much time had elapsed, only that he "never" lost site of my vehicle.
In regards to the testing and calibration steps performed, the notes state that 3 different tests were performed (I believe 4 are listed in the manual) however, in the cases that I've sat in on, the JP ruled that 3 tests is enough to demonstrate that the unit was operating with manufacturer's specifications.
Thoughts?
Again, thank you for your responses and for any further insight.
They are typed on the computer into the note section of the ticketing software. Unless something goes awry there is no more hand written notes for most traffic stops. They are generated by hitting the print function. OPS copper
They are typed on the computer into the note section of the ticketing software. Unless something goes awry there is no more hand written notes for most traffic stops.
In court, as long as the notes used by the officer are the ones given to the defendant then all good.
OPS Copper wrote:
They are typed on the computer into the note section of the ticketing software. Unless something goes awry there is no more hand written notes for most traffic stops.
They are generated by hitting the print function.
OPS copper
In court, as long as the notes used by the officer are the ones given to the defendant then all good.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Well it looks like they've done their work for this charge. If the officer shows up for trial, I'd recommend trying to plea-bargain to a lesser speed.
tobymark wrote:
Unfortunately, all those elements are contained in the notes. The only "inaccuracies" are, his notes state that he was at the intersection of x and y where he was actually situated several hundred meters east of that intersection and, the location where he stopped me, again, his notes indicate that he stopped at the the intersection of X and Y where he actually stopped me several hundred meters west of the intersection. All in all, the distance was approximately 700-800 meters from where his trap was set up. There is no indication in his notes as to how he pulled me over or how much time had elapsed, only that he "never" lost site of my vehicle.
Well it looks like they've done their work for this charge. If the officer shows up for trial, I'd recommend trying to plea-bargain to a lesser speed.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Thanks all for the responses. I guess I'll go through the notes and manual again and see if i can find something/anything to challenge his evidence, if not I'll wait and see if he's a no-show. Cheers!
Thanks all for the responses. I guess I'll go through the notes and manual again and see if i can find something/anything to challenge his evidence, if not I'll wait and see if he's a no-show.
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very…
I was recently pulled over for running a red and I wasnt able to find my wallet in the car at the time to hand over my license. I had a passport in the vehicle that he used. The wallet was in the vehicle, it just fell through the seats. (Tough to find a black leather wallet in a black/black leather truck at night).
The officer still wrote the tickets for both he signed the one ticket (failure to…
I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.