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u turn
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:48 am 
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Hi,
i need some help here.I made u turn @ warden costco.There is sign for no u turn,but i didn't notice it and i made u turn as i saw there was one car ahead of me doing the samething.
anyways this is my first time so i don't know what to do.Should i pay it off or fight it.and i am curious about if my insurace will go up.
The fine is $110. I am alone working mom in the family.My husband is a student.It is kind of hard to afford for me.on top of that if my insurane will go up , OMG :(
So please if someone can help me and give me advice here ,will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Aman


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Location: Orillia
I can't offer legal advice, but I do know that Costco well. If you need to get back to Warden, you have to take the long way around the parking lot and exit over the speed bumps. If you find yourself at the exit where you can't turn left, you can turn to the right, then take a left at the first T-junction, and you end up at Ellesmere. You can turn left there and that will take you back to Warden. There is a traffic light when you turn onto Ellesmere, so you can make the left easily even though you're going from a side street to a main street. Hard to figure out that route without looking at a map. I used to take the T-junction way and use Birchmount or Kennedy instead of Warden.

I don't really understand why the island is there in front of the parking lot exit. Visibility is adequate for a 50 km/h (40?) street, even with the curve to your right. I guess Torontonians can't be trusted to make a left about 80 m from an intersection. :shock:

Anyways, good luck. For future reference, no U-turns are allowed at a curve where visibility is less than 150 m on either side, so it would have been prohibited even without the sign being there. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Everyone makes a u-turn there. It's a total drag to have to drive around. But with the curves, there's a visibility issue and you don't see the cop coming around the bend until it's too late.

You are likely looking at 2 demerit points. If your insurance has the "5-star rating protection" clause then you shouldn't see an increase. But then you won't have another chance if you get another ticket.

Look at it this way: you have nothing to loose by fighting the ticket. You can probably negotiate a lower penalty or even a charge without demerit points. Or you can fight it all the way.

The no u-turn sign needs a by-law. You can request a trial, then request disclosure. If you don't get a copy of the by-law, then you can argue improper disclosure and have the charge tossed. Scarborough is notorious for poor disclosure. Your chances are pretty good.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Just saw Squishy's post and he's probably right about the no by-law required. I'm terrible at estimating distance from memory. I thought it was long enough but likely less than 150m.

Change of strategy. First, the section we are referring to is here.

I still think fighting should at least produce a reduction in the ticket. Also, likely no one has ever measured that part of the road so without proof that it is less than 150 metres or a by-law, you can still fight this.

The key is not let this get to trial and have the cop say on the stand that in his estimation visibility is less than 150 metres in either direction. It is better to go the no disclosure route. The chances of them disclosing a by-law erecting the sign or a will say statement that includes a distance estimation is very low. You've still got good chances.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:16 pm 
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I measured it out on my map software, and from estimating where the island ends, 150 m brings you to around the entrance of the parking lot for Ellesmere Park (assuming s. 143 refers to straight line of sight). If I remember correctly, trees block some of that visibility, and from the map it looks as if the edge of the building might come into play as well.

I bet an unmarked cruiser parked on the grass there would be very busy giving out U-turn tickets. From past experience, I would estimate 3 in 4 cars pull the U-turn to get to Warden out of that exit. It's counter-intuitive to go the opposite way out of the parking lot to turn left. I can usually find a reason to support any unpopular law/bylaw, but that centre island has frustrated me since that place was a Price Club.

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U TURN
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Thank you guys for your replies. Yes, i decided to fight for it.
Yeah, on that day there were 3 cars pulled to give ticket (including me) and then while i was standing there i saw 2 more cars pulled by the same officer. So, i guess that day there might be lot of ppl who got the ticket.
He was like stopping you and telling to go straight when the lights are green.Write you ticket.Go back at the same spot (he was in unmarked car)and watch for others to come and make same mistake and then run after them.
Well for me it was my first time going there.I didn't know if there is way out on the other side.I came out from the parking lot.turn right and then saw there is no left turn , then while i saw someone turning back i said ok i will make u turn. And then get caught up .....POOR ME :(
its kinda funny ppl go to Costco to save money buying things in bulk but when they are out from there they are paying way more.
Same thing for me.I hardly saved about 15 dollars but ended up paying $ 110 for almost nothing. :(


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