I apparently made an improper right turn but couldn't see the sign, anyways went back a few months before my trial date and the sign isn't there anymore...now I can't argue my case properly, does this help me? i took pictures of the intersection with no sign...can this get me off? I think it can, if the cop doesn't have evidence to show that the sign exists how can I get a ticket? and my entire defense is ruined

No, the fact that a sign has been changed/removed isnt grounds to have the charge withdrawn. Its very unlikely the officer has no notes on the sign, or else the Crown wont be able to prove the charge. Request disclosure and go from there. Youll have to base your defence on the officers notes and your own independent recollection.

so I received my disclosure, nothing really there other than a picture of the sign, the time I made the turn and a note that the officer was standing outside directing vehicles to the side of the road for ticketing

Now for a charge of disobeying a sign, the reason I even made the turn was because the officer was pulling cars over on the side of the road and there was a huge traffic mess I didn't even have a choice to go left without causing an accident, heck I thought he was directing traffic right for whatever reason....(what officer stands outside in the middle of the street to give tickets)

can I base a defence around this? Its just so unreal

You're going to have to explain a little better, because I'm not following your explanation of why you made the turn.

Where did this happen (exact location)?

Your post doesn't make sense, first you state the officer is there pulling cars over, then claim he's handing out tickets in the middle of the street? Then you saw the officer motioning for cars to pull over and thought he was waving you through the turn? Then you were caught in the intersection and had nowhere to go except for the illegal turn even though you saw the officer there?

Sounds to me like you weren't paying attention and did something dumb, which isn't much of a defence in court, sorry bro.

this might be interesting if he argues entrapment

Let me rephrase in point form.

Approaching Red Light around 3:35PM

Noticed unusual heavy traffic in the area near the light

Cars/Trucks making left turns from right lane, almost got into an accident

Notice an officer about 25 metres to the right waving cars over to the side of the road, with a police car on the shoulder

there were about 10-15 cars pulled over at once causing traffic chaos in the area

I make the right turn because it was unsafe to change into left lane and there is a cop waving cars over to the side of the road (ride program?) (criminal investigation?) (directing traffic?)

There were two officers, one in the car writing tickets the other one outside pulling cars over (never in my life have I seen a cop in the middle of the road to write tickets unless its ride program)

Officer comes to window, I explain I was taking this route for one week straight and I didn't notice the sign, and thought he was directing traffic, or something happened in the area. officer states sign was placed the prior day, no warning, writes ticket.

I go back near my trial date in August to take pictures, the sign isn't even there anymore and I had it adjourned until late Jan 2012.

Now this entire thing seems a little suspect, the sign is now gone, a cop in the middle of the road, another cop in the car writing many tickets, about 10-15 cars pulled over at once, there were other cars making right turns that got off. It sounds so unorganized, unlike something I have ever seen...it's like they put the sign up just to write tickets and then take it down.

Any advice on what I can argue? hope this is clear

gpolitop wrote:

Let me rephrase in point form.

Approaching Red Light around 3:35PM

Noticed unusual heavy traffic in the area near the light

Cars/Trucks making left turns from right lane, almost got into an accident

Notice an officer about 25 metres to the right waving cars over to the side of the road, with a police car on the shoulder

there were about 10-15 cars pulled over at once causing traffic chaos in the area

I make the right turn because it was unsafe to change into left lane and there is a cop waving cars over to the side of the road (ride program?) (criminal investigation?) (directing traffic?)

There were two officers, one in the car writing tickets the other one outside pulling cars over (never in my life have I seen a cop in the middle of the road to write tickets unless its ride program)

Officer comes to window, I explain I was taking this route for one week straight and I didn't notice the sign, and thought he was directing traffic, or something happened in the area. officer states sign was placed the prior day, no warning, writes ticket.

I go back near my trial date in August to take pictures, the sign isn't even there anymore and I had it adjourned until late Jan 2012.

Now this entire thing seems a little suspect, the sign is now gone, a cop in the middle of the road, another cop in the car writing many tickets, about 10-15 cars pulled over at once, there were other cars making right turns that got off. It sounds so unorganized, unlike something I have ever seen...it's like they put the sign up just to write tickets and then take it down.

Any advice on what I can argue? hope this is clear

I doubt they would let it get to the court.

Print what you have in this thread.

Read it to the da(or show it)

Also a good handful of other papers is a good idea.

If you were acting on the officers direction you are not wrong.

If they don't agree to drop it right there I would be surprised.

If it is not dropped: when the officer gets on the stand ask about how long the sign has been there.(he may answer?)

Ask why he was waving you over?

It doesn't matter the answer. No more questions.

Now your turn.

Explain to the court that you want to read your statement and because you are nervous you want to give copies

to the judge and da so they can follow your story.

Read your above post to the court.

make a few copies and high lite the line about the waving.

If they have not dropped it by now

this is what you do.

Simply say that there is no by-law for that section of road.

You can say it is not there and if they are not ready it stands.

Cheers

Viper1

I got the charges dropped

he said it was an mpp that placed the signage lol and that it was taken down temporarily

I blew a hole in his argument because I had a document saying it was passed via city council the by-law was taken away once the sign was removed so that questioned his testimony

Also he had given me a ticket on the 19th of Oct, but the document from the city said it was put up on the 22nd of October so I argued that technicailly the sign wasn't there

the judge dismissed the charges

Congrats! Good on you for doing your homework

gpolitop wrote:

I got the charges dropped

he said it was an mpp that placed the signage lol and that it was taken down temporarily

I blew a hole in his argument because I had a document saying it was passed via city council the by-law was taken away once the sign was removed so that questioned his testimony

Also he had given me a ticket on the 19th of Oct, but the document from the city said it was put up on the 22nd of October so I argued that technicailly the sign wasn't there

the judge dismissed the charges

Good work.

Cheers

Viper1