Parking in a Fire Route

tom1331
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Parking in a Fire Route

by: tom1331 on
Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:44 pm

I got a ticket for parking in a fire route when I pulled over next to a Condo.
The parking officer just came up from behind my car and slapped a ticket on the windshield.
My fiancee (who is a licensed driver) was in the car at the time and quickly ran outside to let the officer know she's still in the car
the officer said "Too late its already written" and walked away.

So I've decided to fight the ticket.
I've been reading Ticket Combat's website about parking tickets and i'm a bit confused at a certain spot.
He mentioned that parking tickets have a 77 day deadline to file a proceeding.
I'm not sure what that means.

I got the ticket on November 4th 2010 and went the next day to file for a court date.
I got a notice of trial on July 7th, 2011 that my court case will be held on December 2nd 2011.

Since November 4th 2010 to July 7th, 2011 is way over the 77 day period, does this fall under the "dead case" category?
Also, I did not know I can file for disclosure for a parking ticket, I would assume it's too late now? (Trial is 2 weeks away)

I DO intend on filing for an 11B though. I will be running around town tomorrow serving papers to the courts :)
Does an 11B work for parking tickets? It will be 12 months and 28 days since the infraction date.

Any help would be appreciated, Thanks in advanced.


daggx
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by: daggx on
Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:44 pm

Hi Tom1331

-I believe that the 75 day deadline only means that they have to file your ticket with the court within 75 days, your actual trial date can be as far away from the infraction date as 12 months. Since you received a court date in the mail it is likely that the City filed its paper work with the court on time. If they hadn't most likely you would not have received a court date and the whole thing would have just disappeared.

-It usually takes something like 6 weeks for the Crown's Office to process a disclosure request, so at this point it is probably too late to do it.

-Yes 11B is available to anyone facing any charge in Canada, be it for a parking ticket or murder or anything in between, everyone has the right to be tried within a reasonable time. Since your court date is more then 12 months since the day you were ticketed I think you might very well be able to use it successfully. You seem to already know how to file an 11B motion, but in case you are interested there is a good thread on the ins and outs of the 11B process hear http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2952.html There is also a thread hear with some links to some new case law that might help strengthen your case http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic3881.html.

-good luck and keep us updated on how everything goes.


Stanton
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by: Stanton on
Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:51 pm

1) That deadline simply refers to how long the City has to file a form with the Courts. It's not referring to when you actually received your notice of trial or the date of the trial (which I don't think would ever fall within 75 days).

2) Very unlikely you'd receive it in such a short time frame. You may be able to receive a copy at trial. It's probably not going to be much more then the ticket itself, since I don't believe parking officers take notes, etc. You may also be able to request an adjournment to review disclosure, but that time counts against you and you'd have to explain why you waited so long.

3) Yes, you can go ahead with an 11b. Just weigh the time/work versus how much the fine is. For small fines, probably not worth it, larger fines, might be.

Edit: Pretty much exactly what was said above. :)

Oh, and FYI, your girlfriend being in the car isn't a valid defence to the best of my knowledge. Would still fall under the definition of being parked. I simply say that so you don't try to use that as a defence in Court.


iFly55
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by: iFly55 on
Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:52 am

you would have to read the city's by-law, but afaik you are allowed to unload or load passengers/goods whilst parked in designated fire routes

however, even if your fiance was inside the vehicle with engine and hazard lights on; the ticket would still be very much valid

in the future if you do see a MLEO writing a ticket for your vehicle, you should simply drive away before they issue the ticket. if you do drive away they will simply cross the ticket out and write, reason: drive away. but please do not do that when you see peace officer


tom1331
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by: tom1331 on
Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:21 am

Thanks everybody for the quick response.
I guess I'm gonna go to trial without disclosure, good thing it's just a parking ticket huh? lol
It's a $250 fine, I don't mind paying but I think it's just too steep for a misunderstanding :(

Well I got ticketed at Yonge and Sheppard.
I was out with my fiancee and my dad who has a disabled parking pass and needs a wheelchair to get around due to health problems.
I could not find a spot on the street where I could've parallel parked and been able to safely unload the wheelchair from my trunk and have enough space
on the street to allow him to get on the wheel chair.
So I had to pull over to the entrance of a condo/residential area, I got out to get the wheelchair out, put him on the wheelchair and as I was wheeling him
into the building, that's when the officer came by to give us the ticket. He came from the back of the car and he already had the ticket ready to go.
He did not see our handicap pass on my dashboard nor did he care about anything.

To be honest, my car was idle with the engine on and four ways on...so I am guilty of that.
But it's impossible for me to grab the wheelchair from my trunk, open the door wide enough so I can slide him out and place him on a wheelchair if I parallel parked on the street. I'd be lucky if I didn't get honked at or hit by a car lol.


iFly55
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by: iFly55 on
Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:27 pm

i would suggest speaking to a prosecutor prior going to trial, and explain exactly what you were doing

bring the disability pass and if health permits, your father as well

it seems you may not have been in the wrong after all

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/municode/ ... quote]PARK or PARKING — When prohibited, the standing of a vehicle, whether
occupied or not, except when standing temporarily for the purpose of and while
actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or passengers.[/quote]


tom1331
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by: tom1331 on
Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:58 am

Awesome, thank you for the help.
I had originally taken a few pictures of the scene before I moved my car that day and made sure I
had the time and date stamped on the pictures. However, I went back yesterday (a year later) and noticed some new things...

The fire route is a long strip that extends from one end of the block to the other.
It's also where residents need to enter and exit when they arrive or leave home from the 2 condos.
At the time of the ticket, there were only 2 "Fire route" signs posted...1 at each "entrace" to the complex.
I pulled over midway through this strip of road because the door way where I could wheel my dad indoors was located there.

Here's what I noticed after looking at the site again yesterday:

1. The STOP sign that I was facing completely covers the "Fire route" sign.
Somebody placed the "Fire route" sign right behind the STOP sign at exactly the same height so anybody looking forward in my direction could NOT have seen it.
They'd just see the STOP sign.

2. The "Fire Route" sign was also posted "Sideways"...it wasn't posted like a stop sign where it faces on coming traffic. Only way I can explain this is...
If a driver is driving Northbound, the STOP sign would logically be posted facing to the SOUTH to make sure approaching drivers can see the signage.
However, the "Fire route" sign was facing to the WEST so approaching drivers facing NORTH would not have been able to see the signage very well even if they had X-Ray vision to see through the STOP sign in the first place.

3. The Condo complex has added a THIRD "Fire Route" sign now. They've posted another "Fire Route" sign in the middle between both entrances of the complex, Ironically, the pole the used to post the 3rd signage is EXACTLY where my car was located on the day of the incident, and I have a picture with the time/date stamp to show that the sign wasn't there last year.

I know i'd be jumping to conclusions but I would think that numerous people have been getting tickets at the same location not knowing it's a "Fire Route" due to poor signage so they've decided to add a 3rd sign to try to remedy the problem? The length of the strip in question is about 1km (I measured with my car's odometer LOL)

So I plan on attacking this ticket in the following ways:

I've already filed the necessary paper work to motion for an 11B prior to entering a plea..
If that doesn't work, I intend to fight this ticket by showing my dad's handicap parking pass and stating my side of the story with my Fiancee present as a Witness. I'd love to bring my dad to court with us but due to his health issues it would be hard for him to sit still in a courtroom for a prolonged time while court is in session and I can't really leave the court whenever an issue arises.
To strengthen my defense I also intend to submit as evidence the poor/lack of signage of the area in question and their need to add a 3rd sign a year later to make it clearer to everybody that it's a fire route.

What are my odds that I'd be able to win this?
I hope the JP won't frown upon me not being able to bring my dad to court.
Perhaps I can ask my family doctor to write a letter stating my dad's condition and that I am the primary care provider for him and I am his means of transportation?

Thank you all for your help and your opinions :)




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