Radar detector offense

sorry for reviving this thread as it is also the reason I signed in. Got pulled over crossing Michigan to Ontario because of my radar detector. The OPP apparently has a RDD and even if I was just at speed limit, he confiscated my V1 and gave me cad$ 170.00. I plan to choose option 3 appear in court and have officer appear in court. I'm US citizen from arkansas. I get free use of the 407etr as Canada has no agreement with AR.

evois wrote:

sorry for reviving this thread as it is also the reason I signed in. Got pulled over crossing Michigan to Ontario because of my radar detector. The OPP apparently has a RDD and even if I was just at speed limit, he confiscated my V1 and gave me cad$ 170.00. I plan to choose option 3 appear in court and have officer appear in court.

I gave you your own thread since the other one was a couple years old.

I understand you're pleading not guilty, but what's exactly is your defense? Radar detectors are illegal in Ontario. They can't be anywhere in your vehicle. You're not going to get your detector back.

evois wrote:

I'm US citizen from arkansas. I get free use of the 407etr as Canada has no agreement with AR.

That doesn't mean it's "free".

You need to plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get you Notice of Trial you can request disclosure (officers notes). Once you get the notes, post them here.

free 407?

Now that is funny, thank for the laugh, I needed that...

jsherk wrote:

You need to plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get you Notice of Trial you can request disclosure (officers notes). Once you get the notes, post them here.

Can you add a little more to the discussion rather than copy and pasting the same response everywhere?

Observer135 wrote:

free 407?

Now that is funny, thank for the laugh, I needed that...

this is actually true. I have used 407 a few times but never got a toll fee letter in the mail considering I'm in the US. So, I called the customer service number of 407etr and she said that there is no way I can pay it since I'm from the state of AR(arkansas). I gave her my tag(plate number) and she searched and it did not show anything. The only way I can pay it is if I want to pay it and order a transponder. true story.

bend wrote:

evois wrote:

sorry for reviving this thread as it is also the reason I signed in. Got pulled over crossing Michigan to Ontario because of my radar detector. The OPP apparently has a RDD and even if I was just at speed limit, he confiscated my V1 and gave me cad$ 170.00. I plan to choose option 3 appear in court and have officer appear in court.

I gave you your own thread since the other one was a couple years old.

I understand you're pleading not guilty, but what's exactly is your defense? Radar detectors are illegal in Ontario. They can't be anywhere in your vehicle. You're not going to get your detector back.

evois wrote:

I'm US citizen from arkansas. I get free use of the 407etr as Canada has no agreement with AR.

That doesn't mean it's "free".

thanks for the thread. I searched ALL ontario laws and YES it is illegal. My defense is or can be that it is hardwired and I cannot remove it in a prudent safe time(?) since I just crossed the border of MI which detectors are free to use? First time offender? I drive a new 2015 escalade with adaptive cruise control and maybe it can trigger the same falsies in their RDD? I read the law and it's cut and dry except it says it is up to the judge to decide and/or whether it can be returned. thanks for all the replies. But to ask the question, nobody actually fought this ticket in this website?

jsherk wrote:

You need to plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get you Notice of Trial you can request disclosure (officers notes). Once you get the notes, post them here.

I mailed the ticket with option 3 checked requesting for a court date.

evois wrote:

thanks for the thread. I searched ALL ontario laws and YES it is illegal. My defense is or can be that it is hardwired and I cannot remove it in a prudent safe time(?) since I just crossed the border of MI which detectors are free to use?

It wont matter. Doesn't matter if it's glued to the dash, under the seat, in the trunk, in a box, taking it to the post office, on, off, etc. They cannot be in your car, period. Whether or not you came from somewhere it's legal isn't going to matter. There's signs once you enter Canada warning drivers of this very scenario. Not that they are required (it's your responsibility to know), but it doesn't exactly help your cause.

evois wrote:

First time offender?

It wont get you your device back.

evois wrote:

I drive a new 2015 escalade with adaptive cruise control and maybe it can trigger the same falsies in their RDD?

I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting they possibly didn't have the right to pull you over?

evois wrote:

I read the law and it's cut and dry except it says it is up to the judge to decide and/or whether it can be returned. thanks for all the replies. But to ask the question, nobody actually fought this ticket in this website?

They wont give you your detector back.

Because you're from Arkansas, you're never going to see this on your driving record and your insurance company isn't going to care.

All you're really fighting is the fine. I don't know how you'd be able to ever defend this one. They received a signal from a device and ended up pulling a detector from your car. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. So unless the officer moves to Florida or some other gift from upstairs falls in your lap, you're not going to win any trial. Even then, I don't believe you'd get your detector back anyways. Detector is usually worth more than the fine.

As for the 407, you're totally correct. Not all states will have an agreement in place (usually it's just the surrounding states in close proximity). If not, your state would never release the information of the plate owner. You'll certainly have a section of out of province and U.S. drivers who will never receive a bill. Technically it's not free because anyone using it is responsible for the fees, but if they can't follow up, there isn't much they can do. Whether or not it would be possible to keep a running tally for when agreements expand and would have access to who owned what plates and when... I guess it would be possible but I doubt it. Sounds like they're not keeping any of that info anyways.

bend wrote:

evois wrote:

I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting they possibly didn't have the right to pull you over?

.

yes, the new escalades have the adaptive cruise control that uses radar and that give a false beep and technically they cannot assume that a RD was in the vehicle?

evois wrote:

bend wrote:

evois wrote:

I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting they possibly didn't have the right to pull you over?

.

yes, the new escalades have the adaptive cruise control that uses radar and that give a false beep and technically they cannot assume that a RD was in the vehicle?

The RDD does not pick up radar signals or any of these vehicles sensors.

hwybear wrote:

The RDD does not pick up radar signals or any of these vehicles sensors.

if the RDD was manufactured/purchased 12/15 then maybe. it mentions distronic(R) is not detected in the spectre IV(elite) website which is what MB uses but not the other manufacturers. That is why all RD companies are adding all the junk filters, etc.

evois wrote:

bend wrote:

evois wrote:

I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting they possibly didn't have the right to pull you over?

.

yes, the new escalades have the adaptive cruise control that uses radar and that give a false beep and technically they cannot assume that a RD was in the vehicle?

To answer that particular question, the requirement for a police officer to stop and search a vehicle for a speed measuring warning device is only reasonable grounds. So even if there was the possibility of a false positive signal, that doesn't mean the grounds are suddenly negated. Remember, reasonable grounds is not the same as absolute certainty. And the grounds are subjective and can be based on the individual officer's training and experience.

Some other possible factors that could support the officers decision to stop a vehicle:

Is the vehicle from a State or Province where radar detectors are legal?

Was the subjects vehicle observed slowing down when a radar device was activated?

Does the officer frequently experience false positives from other vehicles that are of the same make/model?

I'm actually curious though if cruise control/crash avoidance radars would actually trigger the police detectors. I've read that certain radar detectors can get false positives from other vehicles, but I was under the impression that detector detectors were looking for a different signal then the radar itself.

Stanton wrote:

I'm actually curious though if cruise control/crash avoidance radars would actually trigger the police detectors. I've read that certain radar detectors can get false positives from other vehicles, but I was under the impression that detector detectors were looking for a different signal then the radar itself.

Exactly...the RDD is not looking for a radar signal.

The avoidance systems do not trigger the RDD. If that were the case it would be a constantly activated as the cruisers have those systems too. Then add in probably 10% of vehicles now have those systems. I often go several weeks without an alert, which is hundreds of vehicles with these systems

Just curious, do all police vehicles come equipped with RDD? The reason why I'm asking is from April - September, the same woman, driving the same convertible Porsche with the plate "Hate 2 Wait" keeps driving erratically down Birchmount everyday. I always look over, and I always see a Radar Detector mounted on her dashboard. Its in clear visible sight if you look in the car. I'm trying to figure out how she hasn't been caught yet.

Not all cruisers are equipped the same. I will guess within our area...

About 15 cruisers, 10 moving radar units(radar affixed in cruiser), 2 handheld radar, 2 lidar, 2 RDD and one ALPR (automated licence plate reading).

So 13 units without a RDD.

hwybear wrote:

Not all cruisers are equipped the same. I will guess within our area...

About 15 cruisers, 10 moving radar units(radar affixed in cruiser), 2 handheld radar, 2 lidar, 2 RDD and one ALPR (automated licence plate reading).

So 13 units without a RDD.

do you have a RDD? did you pull me over?

Whether he did pull you over or not, it wouldn't matter. He couldn't even answer the question because he doesn't have the details of your stop. They're rare offenses yes, but certainly not one in a million.

As of a defense of having a radar in the car, take a look at the section:

79 (2): No person shall drive on a highway a motor vehicle that is equipped with or that carries or contains a speed measuring warning device. 1996, c. 33, s. 12.

So basically, if you have a radar detector in the vehicle, you will get charged. The exception is:

Subsection (2) does not apply to a person who is transporting speed measuring warning devices in sealed packages in a motor vehicle from a manufacturer to a consignee.

So unless you were driving a delivery truck with it sealed in it's packaging, it does not apply to you.

If you were thinking of fighting the charge based on the officer not being allowed to search your car,:

A police officer may at any time, without a warrant, stop, enter and search a motor vehicle that he or she has reasonable grounds to believe is equipped with or carries or contains a speed measuring warning device contrary to subsection (2) and may seize and take away any speed measuring warning device found in or upon the motor vehicle.

If you take it to court, it doesn't matter if it is valid in your own state. You want to drive on our roads, you play by our rules. They have the evidence they need against you (confiscated RD Unit) therefore it'll be a slam dunk for the prosecution if they take it to trial. You could probably get a reduced fine, but at the end of the day, is it worth it to take a day to drive to Canada to get a reduced fine. IMHO I would just pay this and forget about it. It's only a monetary fine, and has no insurance impact since you stated before, Ontario doesn't have an agreement with Arkansas.

Update on my case. Just went to traffic court and they called the witness who is the constable that pulled me over. He is an expert in spectre but he really doesn't know anything about new technology. I figured that out during cross examination. The spectre they use was manufactured in 2003. Even with spec sheet it says it detects most not all radar detector and he admitted that it detects falsies from other signals, and could have detected my adaptive cruise control which he didn't know exist already in new cars/SUV's. He also gave a different color of my vehicle. The prosecutor cannot claim victory because the witness wasn't very convincing. But the fact that he was able to get my detector speaks for itself. There is no arguing about that. By merit alone and my performamce(I'm a MD) not a lawyer they should have dropped the case. They lowered the fine in half which was a moral victory in itself but no V1 back. Beware american drivers with radar detectors, it's an unfair traffic law being perpetuated in Canada. Use escort redline or none at all. Your V1 will get you in trouble.

If it was my watching lots of law and order, judge judy and court tv, it helped. The Justice of Peace experience was very exciting. Everybody were nice and even the OPP constable, judge(worship) and prosecutor and staff. It made me relaxed since it was my first time in court. I thought I was role playing;).

So if " it's an unfair traffic law being perpetuated in Canada." I guess you're better add nine US States to your list of unfair traffic laws"

Even if you had been found not guilty, the device would still have been forfeited. Best bet Is to leave them at home.

Decatur wrote:

So if " it's an unfair traffic law being perpetuated in Canada." I guess you're better add nine US States to your list of unfair traffic laws"

Even if you had been found not guilty, the device would still have been forfeited. Best bet Is to leave them at home.

At least those states don't confiscate the detector. You might pay a fine, that's ok but they give back or don't take your personal property.

And the law is broad that the OPP uses it for revenue. I think you have a better chance in court with CWP than a speed measuring device?

evois wrote:

And the law is broad that the OPP uses it for revenue. I think you have a better chance in court with CWP than a speed measuring device?

I'd have to disagree. There's nothing broad about law covering radar detectors in Ontario. You can't have them in your car, period. They can't be in your trunk, they can't be in a box, they can't be under the seat, etc. There's one exception for transporting them and it was made specifically for a company based in Ontario that manufactured radar detectors.

bend wrote:

evois wrote:

And the law is broad that the OPP uses it for revenue. I think you have a better chance in court with CWP than a speed measuring device?

I'd have to disagree. There's nothing broad about law covering radar detectors in Ontario. You can't have them in your car, period. They can't be in your trunk, they can't be in a box, they can't be under the seat, etc. There's one exception for transporting them and it was made specifically for a company based in Ontario that manufactured radar detectors.

Exactly! It's a broad law. Most US drivers have radar detector. So, even if you don't use it but have it, it's illegal. Where would be the perfect place to collect the revenue? Sarnia and Windsor. That's why even if the stop was illegal and the OPP admitted not seeing the V1 turned ON or see me turn it off, which means the device was non-functional just because the V1 was in my possession, the judge couldn't rule in my favor. Spectre manufacture date-2003, vehicle in question 2015 Cadillac Escalade Platinum with adaptive cruise control with long and short radars within the working range of the Spectre.