Hello, I am hoping to get advice on how to proceed with my defence regarding a ticket I received for improper use of a high occupancy vehicle lane on an interprovincial bridge between Hull, QC and Ottawa, ON. The ticket was given in Ottawa by the Ottawa Police. What happened: I was staying at my girlfriend's in Hull, QC because it was close to my new job in Ottawa. This area was brand new to me. Needless to say, I was driving South down Maisonneuve Boulevard in Hull that morning to get to work and cross the bridge to Ottawa. After the intersection between Maisonneuve Boulevard and Laurier Street, there is a bridge that crosses into Ottawa and onto Wellington Street. This is an interprovincial bridge. I was in the furthest left lane in Hull on Maisonneuve Boulevard because it seemed to be moving quicker than the right lane but upon crossing the intersection, I noticed an HOV sign that only allows 3 passengers or more, taxis, buses, etc. So I put my blinker on to get into the right lane but no vehicles would let me in, to which point I was being honked at from buses and vehicles behind me. I decided to keep going with my right blinker on by trying to find a spot to squeeze into on the right lane until a police officer who was purposely waiting on the median got out of his vehicle and asked me to stop right then and there so he could give me a ticket. HOV Lanes & Signage After getting the infuriating ticket, I went back after work and noticed that the lane I was driving in on Maisonneuve Boulevard (in Hull, QC) was not a HOV lane. In fact, the HOV lane on Maisonneuve Boulevard is on the furthest right lane. However, after crossing the intersection onto the bridge, the HOV lane switches to the furthest left lane with only an HOV warning the moment you get on the bridge. My defence According to the Ontario website, entering an HOV lane in Ontario must have approximately a 400m notice. Link: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/ontari ... anes.shtml Second, I assume that an Ottawa by-law comes into play as well. I found the document, and can't find much about HOV lanes in Ottawa other than page 26 that says "drive or permit to be driven any vehicle to be driven, other than a high-occupancy vehicle carrying the minimum number of persons shown on the authorized signs." I also found on page 12, regarding signage, saying: "required to regulate, direct, warn or guide pedestrian and vehicular traffic and parking for the safety and convenience of the public." Link: http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/docume ... law_en.pdf What I am hoping to argue is that there was not enough signage or proper warning to guide me that the HOV lane immediately cuts from the furthest to the right to the furthest to the left upon crossing the bridge. I requested a disclosure two weeks before my court date (May 2), so I hope that I can request my trial to be adjourned until I receive a disclosure. Any advice on how to proceed with this would also be appreciated! Thank you.
Hello,
I am hoping to get advice on how to proceed with my defence regarding a ticket I received for improper use of a high occupancy vehicle lane on an interprovincial bridge between Hull, QC and Ottawa, ON. The ticket was given in Ottawa by the Ottawa Police.
What happened:
I was staying at my girlfriend's in Hull, QC because it was close to my new job in Ottawa. This area was brand new to me.
Needless to say, I was driving South down Maisonneuve Boulevard in Hull that morning to get to work and cross the bridge to Ottawa. After the intersection between Maisonneuve Boulevard and Laurier Street, there is a bridge that crosses into Ottawa and onto Wellington Street. This is an interprovincial bridge. I was in the furthest left lane in Hull on Maisonneuve Boulevard because it seemed to be moving quicker than the right lane but upon crossing the intersection, I noticed an HOV sign that only allows 3 passengers or more, taxis, buses, etc. So I put my blinker on to get into the right lane but no vehicles would let me in, to which point I was being honked at from buses and vehicles behind me. I decided to keep going with my right blinker on by trying to find a spot to squeeze into on the right lane until a police officer who was purposely waiting on the median got out of his vehicle and asked me to stop right then and there so he could give me a ticket.
HOV Lanes & Signage
After getting the infuriating ticket, I went back after work and noticed that the lane I was driving in on Maisonneuve Boulevard (in Hull, QC) was not a HOV lane.
In fact, the HOV lane on Maisonneuve Boulevard is on the furthest right lane. However, after crossing the intersection onto the bridge, the HOV lane switches to the furthest left lane with only an HOV warning the moment you get on the bridge.
Second, I assume that an Ottawa by-law comes into play as well. I found the document, and can't find much about HOV lanes in Ottawa other than page 26 that says "drive or permit to be driven any vehicle to be driven, other than a high-occupancy vehicle carrying the minimum number of persons shown on the authorized signs." I also found on page 12, regarding signage, saying: "required to regulate, direct, warn or guide pedestrian and vehicular traffic and parking for the safety and convenience of the public." Link: http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/docume ... law_en.pdf
What I am hoping to argue is that there was not enough signage or proper warning to guide me that the HOV lane immediately cuts from the furthest to the right to the furthest to the left upon crossing the bridge. I requested a disclosure two weeks before my court date (May 2), so I hope that I can request my trial to be adjourned until I receive a disclosure.
Any advice on how to proceed with this would also be appreciated!
Thank you.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. Register to view.
Were you charged under section 154.1 of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA) or a municipal by-law or the National Capital Commission Traffic and Property Regulations (NCCTPR)?
Were you charged under section 154.1 of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA) or a municipal by-law or the National Capital Commission Traffic and Property Regulations (NCCTPR)?
That is the same situation as me. From what I understand on that thread, I should meet with the prosecutor on my court date and ask them to drop the charge because it was the incorrect one. To clarify my situation, it was indeed the Ottawa Police and it was 154.1 (3) of the Highway Traffic Act. Whereas it should have been S.4(1) or an Ottawa by-law ticket (from what I am reading on the other thread). In your opinion, what should I bring to the prosecutor to prove to them that I was given the wrong charge and therefore should be getting it dropped altogether? Does my signage defence even hold up at all or is my best bet to only bring up the wrong charge and not the signage issue too.
That is the same situation as me. From what I understand on that thread, I should meet with the prosecutor on my court date and ask them to drop the charge because it was the incorrect one. To clarify my situation, it was indeed the Ottawa Police and it was 154.1 (3) of the Highway Traffic Act. Whereas it should have been S.4(1) or an Ottawa by-law ticket (from what I am reading on the other thread).
In your opinion, what should I bring to the prosecutor to prove to them that I was given the wrong charge and therefore should be getting it dropped altogether? Does my signage defence even hold up at all or is my best bet to only bring up the wrong charge and not the signage issue too.
You should get the officer to testify as to what he saw. Then ask him or her to describe the signage and road markings. Bring four copies of Regulation 620/05 (the HOV Regulation made under the HTA): one for the officer, one for the JP, one for the prosecutor and one for you to use. Ask the officer if you were on any of the highways specified in the Regulation (obviously you weren't). Ask the officer if the road markings matched what is specified in the Regulation (obviously they don't). You can then easily prove you were charged under the wrong offence. The prosecutor may then try to change the charge to s. 4(1) of the NCCTPR or the appropriate City of Ottawa by-law, but, to the best of my knowledge, you can object to that as that charge is not included in your original charge.
You should get the officer to testify as to what he saw. Then ask him or her to describe the signage and road markings. Bring four copies of Regulation 620/05 (the HOV Regulation made under the HTA): one for the officer, one for the JP, one for the prosecutor and one for you to use. Ask the officer if you were on any of the highways specified in the Regulation (obviously you weren't). Ask the officer if the road markings matched what is specified in the Regulation (obviously they don't). You can then easily prove you were charged under the wrong offence. The prosecutor may then try to change the charge to s. 4(1) of the NCCTPR or the appropriate City of Ottawa by-law, but, to the best of my knowledge, you can object to that as that charge is not included in your original charge.
You should get the officer to testify as to what he saw. Then ask him or her to describe the signage and road markings. Bring four copies of Regulation 620/05 (the HOV Regulation made under the HTA): one for the officer, one for the JP, one for the prosecutor and one for you to use. Ask the officer if you were on any of the highways specified in the Regulation (obviously you weren't). Ask the officer if the road markings matched what is specified in the Regulation (obviously they don't). You can then easily prove you were charged under the wrong offence. The prosecutor may then try to change the charge to s. 4(1) of the NCCTPR or the appropriate City of Ottawa by-law, but, to the best of my knowledge, you can object to that as that charge is not included in your original charge.
I received my disclosure. They are typed out notes of the officer. They say: "Enforcement of the Ottawa bound HOV lane. Signs posted clearly for bus/taxi person or more vehicles. Police truck parked NB on centre median. officer on foot. Vehicle observed in bus lane is a grey Hyundai sedan solo male drive4r in bus lane ID w ONT LD"
Zatota wrote:
You should get the officer to testify as to what he saw. Then ask him or her to describe the signage and road markings. Bring four copies of Regulation 620/05 (the HOV Regulation made under the HTA): one for the officer, one for the JP, one for the prosecutor and one for you to use. Ask the officer if you were on any of the highways specified in the Regulation (obviously you weren't). Ask the officer if the road markings matched what is specified in the Regulation (obviously they don't). You can then easily prove you were charged under the wrong offence. The prosecutor may then try to change the charge to s. 4(1) of the NCCTPR or the appropriate City of Ottawa by-law, but, to the best of my knowledge, you can object to that as that charge is not included in your original charge.
I received my disclosure. They are typed out notes of the officer. They say:
"Enforcement of the Ottawa bound HOV lane. Signs posted clearly for bus/taxi person or more vehicles. Police truck parked NB on centre median. officer on foot. Vehicle observed in bus lane is a grey Hyundai sedan solo male drive4r in bus lane ID w ONT LD"
I still think what I suggested will work. Signs may have been posted, but I'm guessing from what you've said that (a) there were no "HOV lane ahead" type signs on the Quebec side and (b) the signage did not conform to the Regulation (I believe someone who's in a similar situation said the lane is 3+). The officer clearly charged you under the wrong Act.
I still think what I suggested will work. Signs may have been posted, but I'm guessing from what you've said that (a) there were no "HOV lane ahead" type signs on the Quebec side and (b) the signage did not conform to the Regulation (I believe someone who's in a similar situation said the lane is 3+). The officer clearly charged you under the wrong Act.
Ok, thank you. So there is a sign that advises you HOV +3 taxi/bus ahead but it is as soon as you cross the intersection onto the bridge. If you see in my image it says HOV sign furthest left. That arrow is where all of a sudden it tells you it is now an HOV lane ahead. But the HOV lane was actually on the furthest right before the intersection/crossing on the bridge. Do you think that even though there was a "warning sign" right away that it will constitute a fair warning that it is HOV? It seems that the Ontario HOV says it should be 400m notice (again being the wrong charge he gave me anyway). From what I read about the previous person having this issue, it seems that people are saying if six months doesn't pass by time you go to court that the prosecutor can give me a new charge that would be the proper one? Or should they just end up dropping it based on my arguments you mentioned earlier. Thanks again.
Zatota wrote:
I still think what I suggested will work. Signs may have been posted, but I'm guessing from what you've said that (a) there were no "HOV lane ahead" type signs on the Quebec side and (b) the signage did not conform to the Regulation (I believe someone who's in a similar situation said the lane is 3+). The officer clearly charged you under the wrong Act.
Ok, thank you. So there is a sign that advises you HOV +3 taxi/bus ahead but it is as soon as you cross the intersection onto the bridge. If you see in my image it says HOV sign furthest left. That arrow is where all of a sudden it tells you it is now an HOV lane ahead. But the HOV lane was actually on the furthest right before the intersection/crossing on the bridge. Do you think that even though there was a "warning sign" right away that it will constitute a fair warning that it is HOV? It seems that the Ontario HOV says it should be 400m notice (again being the wrong charge he gave me anyway).
From what I read about the previous person having this issue, it seems that people are saying if six months doesn't pass by time you go to court that the prosecutor can give me a new charge that would be the proper one? Or should they just end up dropping it based on my arguments you mentioned earlier. Thanks again.
The 3+ HOV lane that exists on the bridge is municipal and is covered by an Ottawa by-law. The provisions of the HTA do not apply. Had you been charged under the NCCTPR, you'd have been guilty. The officer charged you with the wrong offence. If you're in court within six months of the alleged offence date, the officer (not the prosecutor) could theoretically charge you with the "correct" offence. Whether he would, however, would be entirely up to him.
The 3+ HOV lane that exists on the bridge is municipal and is covered by an Ottawa by-law. The provisions of the HTA do not apply. Had you been charged under the NCCTPR, you'd have been guilty. The officer charged you with the wrong offence.
If you're in court within six months of the alleged offence date, the officer (not the prosecutor) could theoretically charge you with the "correct" offence. Whether he would, however, would be entirely up to him.
My court date was today. After trial, the prosecutor didn't believe it was my first time on this bridge and therefore should have been more aware. The judge later proceeded to give my sentence as guilty. The prosecutor claims that there is a subsection within the HTA that applies to this offence. I do not recall what it was. Notably, the judge mentioned that wrong offence or not that I have confirmed I was on that lane and that is enough to make me guilty. I have taken papers to appeal. Not sure if I should. If anyone can please advise. Thank you.
Zatota wrote:
The 3+ HOV lane that exists on the bridge is municipal and is covered by an Ottawa by-law. The provisions of the HTA do not apply. Had you been charged under the NCCTPR, you'd have been guilty. The officer charged you with the wrong offence.
If you're in court within six months of the alleged offence date, the officer (not the prosecutor) could theoretically charge you with the "correct" offence. Whether he would, however, would be entirely up to him.
My court date was today. After trial, the prosecutor didn't believe it was my first time on this bridge and therefore should have been more aware. The judge later proceeded to give my sentence as guilty. The prosecutor claims that there is a subsection within the HTA that applies to this offence. I do not recall what it was. Notably, the judge mentioned that wrong offence or not that I have confirmed I was on that lane and that is enough to make me guilty.
I have taken papers to appeal. Not sure if I should. If anyone can please advise. Thank you.
Did they change the charge then to a different section of the HTA or to a bylaw offence or to the NCCTPR? If you want to appeal, you need to pay for 3 copies of the transcript in advance. So now you have to decide if your time and money is worth appealing it. Personally I encourage the appeal on principle alone, but that of course does not mean you will win! And since we were not there, we do not really know what was said or what went down.
Did they change the charge then to a different section of the HTA or to a bylaw offence or to the NCCTPR?
If you want to appeal, you need to pay for 3 copies of the transcript in advance. So now you have to decide if your time and money is worth appealing it. Personally I encourage the appeal on principle alone, but that of course does not mean you will win! And since we were not there, we do not really know what was said or what went down.
There's no way the JP could have found you guilty of the offence with which you were charged. It refers to a situation that's completely different from the one covered by Section 154.1. Even if you say you were driving in the lane, you did not violate s. 154.1 and cannot be found guilty of violating it. Unless the prosecutor amended the charge, you could not have been found guilty. In this case, the JP would have made an error in law and you should be able to win on appeal (my non-professional opinion, of course). If the prosecutor did amend the charge, the question becomes whether the new charge is included in the original. There have been discussions here as to what "included" means, including some excellent examples. I'm hardly an expert on this subject, so, perhaps, someone else can chime in.
There's no way the JP could have found you guilty of the offence with which you were charged. It refers to a situation that's completely different from the one covered by Section 154.1. Even if you say you were driving in the lane, you did not violate s. 154.1 and cannot be found guilty of violating it. Unless the prosecutor amended the charge, you could not have been found guilty. In this case, the JP would have made an error in law and you should be able to win on appeal (my non-professional opinion, of course).
If the prosecutor did amend the charge, the question becomes whether the new charge is included in the original. There have been discussions here as to what "included" means, including some excellent examples. I'm hardly an expert on this subject, so, perhaps, someone else can chime in.
We all know that numerous police agencies around Ontario (and world for that matter) set up speed traps in inconspicuous locations to catch motorists who are speeding.
If you know of any speed traps that are in regular use please post them here for all to know and avoid speeding fines.
Format: Town, Location, Direction, known days of operation (if known).
I received a speeding ticket this past weekend, and although the officer was nice and gave my 6yo a coupon for a free slushy, I want to fight the ticket.
The officer wrote the offence as "95km/h in a posted E0 km/h zone" the "E" being what looks like a written backwards 3. Now I know and you can probably guess he intended to write an 8 but that is not what is there it is an incomplete 8 and…
Need some help as i was given a old version yellow ticket(Form4) with improper left turn by an officer last week, which is old version printed by 2009. Then two days later, the officer found me giving a new version ticket with color green(Form4), printed by 2012. The details on face pages for two tickets are similar, but back sides are different. My question is first yellow ticket is effective or…
I was charged of speeding, but I don't know what the radar Decatur Genesis II Select Directional VIP is? please let me know what kind device is this and if any one have the manual can you give it to please pleaseeeee.
Recently I got a ticket for disobey sign under the HTA. From where I turned on to the street, the sign was visible for less than 10 metres, during which time I was performing safety checks for upcoming turn. ( I'll post full details after I first get some advise. )
What is the best defense for this? I took some digital pictures but my camera does not do .raw photos and at that time I had not…
I was turning left from Creditview into the left lane of Argentia Road (in Missisauga), while a police cruiser driving the opposite direction turning right into the right lane of Argentia Road. As I saw the cruiser turning right into the right lane of Argentia Road, I also turned left into the left lane of Argentia Road. The officer stopped me and told me that I was wrong, I had to wait until…
So I was on my way home, going a solid 120 as usual in the fast lane. Someone decides to cut me off going less than 100. I do a quick double lane change and speed up unknowingly hitting apparently 150. After speeding for a mere 20 seconds, I am pulled over. Cop says he reduced the ticket to 49 over, I was charged $359 for that. Of course, my insurance isn't in my car... I had to take it out…
After doing quite a bit of research, I stumbled across this forum and thought it would be a good idea to get some opinions about the situation that I currently find myself in. Hopefully some of you may have experienced this in the past and can provide me with some guidance for the best course of action. Thank you in advance for all your help. I greatly appreciate it.
I was driving on a two-lane Trans-Canada route where the indicated speed limit was 90 km/h and following a car for about 15 minutes. That car was going between 70 to 80 whenever there was a curve or a hill going up ahead. Passing was either not permitted or not safe in those sections. However, whenever there was an opportunity to pass that car, the driver would increase its speed to about 115…
My elderly mother received a city bylaw ticket (Ottawa) for parking on private property. A tow trunk was at the scene to tow the vehicle, and they charged a "drop fee" to unhook the vehicle right away. The bylaw officer who issued the ticket was present and said that the ticket would get dismissed in court (as it was issued in error), and that there should be a way to apply to get the tow…
I went to Huntsville for buying a horse trailer in Thursday.
Got 1 ticket of careless driving nearby east gate of Algonquin Park. They police said he received a complaint that my pickup truck hit the road shoulder and disturbed some gravel dust.
I found a police car traced me, so I turn to a roadside motel. After I parked my vehicle, and heading to motel office, the police car arrived gently…
My trial for a speeding ticket is coming up. I have followed recommendations off ticketcombat website and have sent 3 disclosure requests (without phone number) and have received nothing. At the day of trial it will be about 10 months since the ticket was issued.
I guess the first step will be to ask the court for an adjournment during the Motions, "Your Worship, I would like to ask for an…
Last week I was driving though downtown and because of the slippery / wet conditions could not stop when the light was turning yellow to red and slid in to the intersection. I was hit by another car (near the headlamp). None of us were injured, there was significat damge to the cars. The air bags did not deploy.
I was given a ticket that reads : Red Light - fail to stop - H.T.A sect 144 (18) Fine…
a few years ago, I posted about getting a 19+over ticket and said it was a ridiculous ticket since it was down a hill and everyone drives that 10-20 over.
Everyone here claimed I was outrageous to be driving over the limit by ANY amount and I was driving wildly for doing so. Since those two years have passed, I've stuck to the speed limit...guess what happens?
About a month ago, I got a funny situation where a cop made a u-turn to stop in a very showy fashion (that scared and surprised me) because he almost hit me while doing that.
Anyhow, he claimed that he metered me while he was driving towards me so he said his car is equipped to meter opposite coming cars as he drives. I filed the ticket and I was convicted within few days - an…
My wife got a speeding ticket on a construction zone on Hwy 400 and I went to court to try to defend her.
I ordered the disclosure request and got it on the first trial.
The first trial my strategy was to say there was conflict and misunderstanding of road signs. The prosecutor told me I could not confirm that since I personally wasnt there the day of the offence, and my wife has to…
So I had a guy turn across my lane into his driveway and I hit him. I'm going to court solo so I need any information at all regarding proceedings.
I clearly saw two police officers on scene and got disclosure from only one of their black-books even though they both took notes, one from me and one from him. He got a ticket which I will explain in the next paragraph. I don't see any driving history…
So Again, I really don't know how I'm attracting attention to myself, but I am.
Saturday at 1:30 in the morning I was pulled over on the 400 for 142 in a posted 100 Zone. Honestly, I know I was speeding, but I thought maybe 110-120 (I'm trying to clean up my act.) Anyways, Pulled over, Ticketed, Explained 3 options on the back, and we departed on our way.
Hey everyone. Back last summer I got a parking ticket for being within 3m of a fire hydrant. Funny thing is, I parked (in my estimation) at least far enough away from it, deliberately. There were no markings on the pavement but I can't believe I was within 10 feet of that thing (sorry I suck at metric.)
It's only $20 but I was ticked off 'cause I don't park in front of fire hydrants and don't…
I have been charged with driving under suspension due to medical reasons, It was suspended in Mar and In apr I got a new car put it on the road and the License Breau said nothing to me to let me know it was still suspended. I have been to court 2x for this matter first time I asked for adjurnment to seek a resoultion, 2x I went I ask for another adjurnment to seek a resolution because the CA had…
Improper Use of HOV Lane on Interprovincial Bridge
