Speeding Ticket (possible fatal error)

Hi. I just got a ticket with the offence indicated as "SPEEDING KM/HR IN A KM/HR ZONE" below said remark Violation of HIGHWAY TRAFFIC ACT Section 128.

This happened in Pickering in a 60km/hr zone early in the morning when I did not notice that I was already speeding over the limit. Actually the police showed me the radar that I went 89km/hr. The police told me that he won't give me a hard time and just set fine of $25 (total payable $40) with no demerit points. I'm just worried that if conviction is made, this will stay in my record and impact my insurance premium.

I'm wondering if, during the trial, I could move for the quashal of the offense charged "SPEEDING KM/HR IN A KM/HR ZONE" is unknown to law. And by the way, if I would request for disclosure from the prosecutor, which will show this offense charge, will it not work against me so that the prosecutor equirecan amend the charge. What if during the trial, the witness (police officer) can show evidence of the actual speed registered in the radar and his notes, will this defense of fatal error still work?

In addition, what does the signature requirement in the ticket mean? Does it have to be the handwritten signature? The ticket issued me just indicates the police officer's name printed electronically with no handwritten signature and I'm wondering if there is an opportunity to raise fatal error. I'm not sure if this is a case of an electronic signature.

I would appreciate your opinion of the matters above.

Thanks and regards,

Red Cliff

Others more savvy in the steps will help, but I think when the ticket is filed the JP will quash it as face value is not correct?

The electronic signature/print has been around for several years, no issue with that

Hi Hwybear,

Thanks for your opinion. So, given the ticket indicating as offence only "SPEEDING KM/HR IN A KM/HR ZONE" the JP will automatically dismiss the trial without referring to other evidence by allowing the prosecutor to present/submit these evidence (eg radar reading 89km/hr, notes from police officer, testimony of witness police officer)? Will there still be a trial, in the first place given this circumstance? When the prosecutor files the case, will he present a copy of the ticket to the court?

I'm thinking if the prosecution overcomes this fatal error, and the trial proceeds, can I say that the reason why I sped up was because of severe stomach pain (that I need to find the nearest McDonalds or Tim Hortons to use its washroom). This actually happened. I had an experience with that kind of pain that I almost collapsed years ago. I felt that I was losing energy probably because my blood was concentrating in my stomach. So, when I realized that it was happening again and being aware that I was in the middle of a farm area that if I collapse no one can help me in an effective and efficient manner, I decided to speed a bit. I thought that it could mean harm to myself that I accelerated as a matter of necessity. I'm just not sure now if strict compliance with law given that by doing so your life is already in danger would still be reasonable. Please advise if this can be used as a defense and has its basis in law.

Regards,

Red

Search the forum for threads dealing with forcing a fatal error. You don't want to go to trial since the error can simply be amended.

If you do go to trial arguing you needed to use a washroom will not meet the criteria of duress to justify speeding.

I think that your set-fine is wrong.

Cheers

Viper1

viper1 wrote:

I think that your set-fine is wrong.

Cheers

Viper1

OP suggests that the officer gave him a reduction, and the set fine and total payable is consistent with a +10km/hr charge.

iFly55 wrote:

viper1 wrote:

I think that your set-fine is wrong.

Cheers

Viper1

OP suggests that the officer gave him a reduction, and the set fine and total payable is consistent with a +10km/hr charge.

OP states no numerical values for speed or zone

Hi Guys,

Thank you for taking time on my issue. Henceforth, what course of action do I have to take?

Notice of Offence states offence as "SPEEDING KM/HR IN A KM/HR ZONE"

- Is it wise to ignore while the notice states among others that if I do not exercise any of the 3 enumerated options w/in 15 days, it is deemed that I am not

disputing the charge and a conviction will be automatically entered plus additional costs will be imposed. Nevertheless, there is still an opportunity to appeal.

- If I go for a trial, possibility is that JP will instruct the prosecutor to amend the charge? In the first place, why would the prosecutor file the case when he sees

this fatal error in the notice? Perhaps, he will base it from other evidence (eg. radar reading) such that when he will file the charge, he will not indicate the

offence as "SPEEDING KM/HR IN A KM/HR ZONE", instead SPEEDING 89KM/HR IN A 60KM/HR ZONE? Is this a possibility?

SPEEDING 89KM/HR IN A 60KM/HR ZONE

- It was due to necessity that I decided to speed up. I did some research that violation of the HW Traffic Act is an absolute liability offence. Intent is not an

element yet necessity is a defence. The following has to be satisfied in order for necessity be successful as a defence ( R. v. Latimer (2001)):

1. the accused must be in imminent peril or danger

2. the accused must have had no reasonable legal alternative to the course of action he or she undertook

3. the harm inflicted by the accused must be proportional to the harm avoided by the accused

Thanks,

Red

If the ticket does not state the speed you were travelling at and the limit of the posted zone they you would be well advised to follow Stanton's advice and go the forcing a fatal error route. Forget about everything else.

@Red Cliff, forget about the necessity defence! You already have the fatal error, use it in your favour.

love the necessity defense, You speed and were stopped and delayed even longer than had you driven at the speed limit. Think about that for a minute.

Due to the delay you did not die or need an ambulance so really there is no necessity to speed. The fact that none of those happened on the stop proves that.

ops

Hi Guys. Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it.

OPS Copper, you're right. Thanks too for pointing it out. The intensity of the pain then was not the same as the past experience. I was just anticipating it could happen which I was really trying to avoid. Anyway, this is a difficult route. Besides, forcing a fatal error indeed is a far better route.

I'll be researching about forcing a fatal error. If you have inputs on steps about this, please...

Regards once again.

Red

Hi,

I just found something in CANLII on the subject Provincial Offences Act, RSO 1990, c P.33 which states among others...

Deemed not to dispute charge

9. (1) A defendant is deemed to not wish to dispute the charge where,

(a) at least 15 days have elapsed after the defendant was served with the offence notice and the defendant did not give notice of intention to appear under

section 5, did not request a meeting with the prosecutor in accordance with section 5.1 and did not plead guilty under section 7 or 8;

(b) the defendant requested a meeting with the prosecutor in accordance with section 5.1 but did not attend the scheduled meeting with the prosecutor; or

(c) the defendant reached an agreement with the prosecutor under subsection 5.1 (7) but did not appear at a sentencing hearing with a justice under

subsection 5.1 (8). 2009, c. 33, Sched. 4, s. 1 (13).

Action by justice

(2) Where a defendant is deemed to not wish to dispute the charge, a justice shall examine the certificate of offence and shall,

(a) where the certificate of offence is complete and regular on its face, enter a conviction in the defendants absence and without a hearing and impose the

set fine for the offence; or

(b) where the certificate of offence is not complete and regular on its face, quash the proceeding. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 4, s. 1 (13).

I'm thinking of taking the following steps:

1. Ignore the offence notice until the 15-day period lapses (under POA 9.1.a)

2. Hope for the Justice to act in accordance with POA 9.2.b

3. If justice does not, then appeal from the conviction (I wish it ends in #2)

Please advise if I am in the right track in forcing the fatal error.

Thanks again,

Red

You got it, simple do nothing (ignore the ticket) and a justice of the peace will quash the ticket after 15 days. If you go to court for trial they will amend the ticket so that it is correct so you do not want to do that. If the justice doesnt notice the error on the ticket you can appeal.

Just be sure that you indeed have a fatal error. I would scan your ticket and post it here (delete your name, plate and offence number) because the whole point of electronic tickets is to avoid errors.

@ynotp, Hi. Thanks for taking time on this. Please see attached copy of offence notice.

Regards,

Red

Looks like a fatal error to me so much for computers...

Here's a pretty good blurb about it:

http://www.ticketcombat.com/step5/quash.php

It will be easiest for you to just ignore the ticket though you run a small risk of the JP missing the error and you having to appeal.

@ynotp, thank you.

Just a few more...

1. There is nothing in law or the rules of court that says its a contempt to ignore an offence notice, right?

2. In case the JP overlooks the fatal error and places a conviction, will that input and stay automatically in my driving record/history even though I win in the

appeal? Or, will the record show what transpired (eg convicted but appealed)?

3. Has there been an instance where, the judge in the appellate court remands the case for trial back to the JP's jurisdiction who rendered the conviction?

Thanks,

Red

Not going to court means you are deemed not to dispute the charge and if the ticket has no errors you will be convicted.

Once you are granted appeal successfully the conviction is erased.

Yes but not for fatal errors.

@ynotp:

Taking the route of ignoring the ticket:

1. Once I ignore the ticket, and after 15 days from issuance of offence notice, will the conviction be entered on the 16th day?

2. Will I be notified of the conviction (mail)? Usually when can I expect it?

3. When will the fine imposed be usually due after conviction?

4. In case appeal is inevitable, is it something that I will need an expert to help me out with the process? Is there a link to refer

to for a step by step appeal process specifically applicable to convictions by non-dispute of charge (by ignoring the ticket)

based on fatal error?

Thanks again.

Regards,

Red

Hi,

Sorry, I should have asked about this question further earlier altogether... In case the JP decides to quash the proceedings due to certificate being not complete and regular on its face, do I get notified of said decision?

Thanks,

Red

@Red Cliff, check daggx's post about the appeal process: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... tml#p30086

The courts have a generous grace period of ~30-days that gives defendants extra time especially if they're mailing in their tickets.

It's your responsibility to contact the court house to monitor the status of your ticket. You have 30 days from the date you're convicted to appeal it.

@iFly55: Thanks for your input. One thing, if the JP decides to quash the proceedings due to certificate being not complete and regular on its face, do I get notified of said decision?

Regards,

Red

@AbsoluteTT:

Hi Catherine,

Thank you for your inputs. So the even if I just ignore the ticket and the JP examines the ticket and finds it incomplete and irregular on its face, he will still have the prosecutor amend the certificate? I'm trying to look at POA Sec 9.2.b which states

Action by justice

(2) Where a defendant is deemed to not wish to dispute the charge, a justice shall examine the certificate of offence and shall,

(a) where the certificate of offence is complete and regular on its face, enter a conviction in the defendants absence and

without a hearing and impose the set fine for the offence; or

(b) where the certificate of offence is not complete and regular on its face, quash the proceeding. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 4, s.

1 (13)

Are you referring to an instance where one request for a trial, showed up and moved to quash the proceedings? I am actually referring to the option of just ignoring the ticket because of offence stated unknown to law as earlier quoted from the ticket "SPEEDING KM/HR IN A KM/HR ZONE". I'd like to know that if the JP decides to quash the proceedings based on the above sec 9.2.b POA, will I be notified that the proceedings has been quashed (eg. by mail)?

Regards,

Red

I'm going to hazard a guess that Catherine is just trying to drum up business and didn't read your post fully. Your ticket would only be amended at trial.

It's your responsibility to contact the court house to monitor the status of your ticket. I don't believe they're lawfully obligated to let you know whether it's quashed by mail.

If you're convicted, they may send you a letter with a 'Notice of Fine and Due Date'. If you fail to pay, you'll receive a letter from the MTO that your driver's license was suspended for non-payment.

It's in your best interest to exercise due diligence and contact the court house; this is maybe why choosing trial/early-resolution are better options, because you'll know the exact date a JP will have either quashed/convicted your ticket.

Thanks Stanton. Do you have any idea if I get notified by mail in case the JP decides to quash the proceedings based on POA 9.2.b?

Regards,

Red

@iFly55: Thanks. I'm just confused. I thought ignoring the ticket is the best solution given the circumstance that the ticket says "SPEEDING KM/HR IN A KM/HR ZONE"

Regards,

Red

I think ignoring your ticket is the fastest route to victory. If I were you I would wait for 30 days and then if you haven't heard anything by then call the court house and ask about the status of your ticket.

If it has been quashed they will tell you, at which point your case is over and you have won. When the quash a ticket they do not send out a written notice so the only way for you to find out is to call.

If they tell you it is still pending then thank them and hang up. Wait for another 15 days or so and then call back and check again.

If they tell you that a conviction has been entered against you then you will need to prepare your appeal. Although if this happens you will also get a notice of fine and due date in the mail.

@daggx: Thank you so much.

Thank you everyone for the invaluable inputs.

Regards,

Red

Hey what happened to your ticket? I got a similar ticket but I already asked for court date. It says "speeding" that's it and reduced ticket costing me $90 - she said I was going 70/h in 50 verbally but there's nothing to indicate that on the ticket. Does that mean I get no demerit points?