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Speeding 5 over and fatal error
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:55 am 
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Hello Everyone

I'm new in this and this is my first ticket, but browsing on internet I found this site so this is my question:
I got charged with driving 55km/h in 50km/h zone, but on the ticket there are few mistakes, which from what I read on the forums are fatal. First the ticket is not signed by the officer, set fine is set on 25$ and total payable is 40$, both by my knowledge fatal errors, and couple of other mistakes like wrong birthday date and sex.
So my question is should I go to court for a trial or do nothing ?

Thank You


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:39 am 
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If it is an electronic generated ticket it does not need to be signed.

Set fine is in the set fine box....if this is wrong then it is fatal...

however the 40 is in the total payable box and includes the victim Surcharge


GS

Note there is a member here who will tell you something different but the theories have never been fought so they are just a theory,,,

Do nothing and you will be deemed not to dispute and be convicted

OPS


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:12 am 
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Well set fine is 25$ and when I looked today at MTO website from 0-20 km/h over fine is 3$ per km/h exceeding which will come to 15$ not 25$ as in my ticket. If i do nothing and get convicted how are the chances that I can reopen the case ?

Thanx again


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Why would you do nothing and get convicted? Why not just go plead not guilty and Fight on your perceived fatal errors?

Remember if you do nothing you will be convicted and don't pay your liscence will be suspended for non payment...And that will cost you the fine plus 150 to get it re-instated..

Either way you will have to go to court....So I do nt see why you want to do nothing

GS


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:28 am 
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No signature is a fatal error, as well as if the set fine OR total payable is incorrect. There are a couple of ways of fighting it. If you choose not to dispute the charge (by simply doing nothing), the Provincial Offences Act then takes over, and the Justice of the Peace who gets your ticket the only has to do one thing: Examine it to see if it is complete and regular on its face. If it is, the JP will enter a conviction against you. If not, the JP is supposed to quash the certificate. "Complete and regular" basically means no fatal errors. The Ontario Court of Appeal in the London v. Young ruling (link below) stated that if there is a fatal error and the defendant either does not respond to the ticket, or does not show up for trial, the JP must quash the certificate. Problem is, many JPs don't bother to examine the ticket and simply enter the conviction, which means you then have to appeal it to get it quashed. (This is about as painless as a root canal.) Here's the case law behind it, if you're interested in reading that sort of stuff:

R. v. Monahan et al, 2009
City of London v. Young, 2008
City of Barrie v. Porter, 2007
City of Sudbury v. Leikermoser, 2008

You can plead not guilty, but be aware that if you are present for trial, the Crown can amend the certificate and fix the error... but that can be stopped as well. Check out this website:

www.ticketcombat.com

The "unproven theory" OPS Copper is referring to came from another member, who says that the simple presence of a "total payable" renders the ticket null and void. I wouldn't bet the farm on that one.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:54 am 
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Sorry no signature is not a fatal error IF it is an electronic generated ticket....I do not have my HTA/O.Regs but there is a specific reg dealing with the...I work today and will see if i can find the exact section.

Yeah that is the theory plus a few more

OPS


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:54 am 
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OPS Copper wrote:
Sorry no signature is not a fatal error IF it is an electronic generated ticket....I do not have my HTA/O.Regs but there is a specific reg dealing with the...I work today and will see if i can find the exact section.

Yeah that is the theory plus a few more

OPS


It's O.Reg. 497/94, section 2. It's not an HTA O.Reg., but under the POA.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:37 am 
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OPS Copper wrote:
Sorry no signature is not a fatal error IF it is an electronic generated ticket..


I think Odot wanted to go to electronic ticketing for reasons like that, but for some reason the switchover didn't happen. Cost?

Squishy wrote:
It's O.Reg. 497/94, section 2. It's not an HTA O.Reg., but under the POA.


Thanks Squishy.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:41 pm 
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Thanks alot for the respomse guys, but now full 2 weeks after i got the ticket, the ticket is not filed in the court, i checked there, some of them saying that cops have 7 days someone says they have 10 days to file the ticket in court, either way the due date past, but I will still call them for a month or so because it "might" be a backlog but i dont think so. i am assumong that the cop saw the mistake and didnt even bother to file the ticket. If there are any changes i will let you know.


Thanks again for the sugestions


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:09 pm 
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btbitola wrote:
Well set fine is 25$ and when I looked today at MTO website from 0-20 km/h over fine is 3$ per km/h exceeding which will come to 15$ not 25$ as in my ticket.


set fine for that is $2.50 per km over (as set by the ontario courts...not MTO) plus the surcharge...so I will guess at $12.50 plus $5 for $17.50 total.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:14 pm 
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Squishy wrote:
OPS Copper wrote:

OPS


It's O.Reg. 497/94, section 2. It's not an HTA O.Reg., but under the POA.



I know...But HTA and Oregs are in the SAME book that we use..notice the "/"

GS


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:20 am 
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Gotcha. I was going by how they are listed on the e-laws site.

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