Fatal Error on the Ticket

Can anyone please list all errors that are considered to be fatal (invalid ticket)? I think this will be a great sticky.

I have a ticket that does not indicate any chapter and section. It just says "Proceed contrary to sign at intersection" and just says HTA in the "contrary to" section. Can anyone tell me if this is a fatal error? I believe it is.

So I can start here.

1. MISPELLED NAME error is NOT fatal.

2. WRONG CAR YEAR is NOT fatal.

... anyone else?

Fatal Errors:

- Defendant name missing

- Missing offence or an offence not known to law

- Missing date

- Missing offence location

- Missing officer signature if it is NOT an electronic ticket

- Incorrect set fine and/or total payable (one report says this is no longer the case... currently waiting for confirmation of case law or legislative change)

Tickets do not have a vehicle year...that year is the Permit year and not vehicle year.

GS

OPS Copper wrote:

Tickets do not have a vehicle year...that year is the Permit year and not vehicle year.

GS

and the newer tickets do not have a spot for the year or make

One other thing to add... wrong set fine/total payable only becomes a fatal error if the defendant fails to respond to the ticket or appear for trial. Appear for trial and the ticket can be amended by the JP.

Radar Identified wrote:

Fatal Errors:

- Defendant name missing

- Missing offence or an offence not known to law

- Missing date

- Missing offence location

- Missing officer signature if it is NOT an electronic ticket

- Incorrect set fine and/or total payable (one report says this is no longer the case... currently waiting for confirmation of case law or legislative change)

Where is the authority that describes the fatal errors mentioned? Especially the offence not known error.

Thank you

They are not fatal errors,

examples of fatal errors

Officer name not on ticket

Date wrong on ticket

Name totally missing on ticket

Location not on ticket

City or municipality missing on ticket

maskman wrote:

Where is the authority that describes the fatal errors mentioned? Especially the offence not known error.

Basically precedent. Let's say you got a ticket that says you were charged under s. 128 and the act was "Driving Too Fast for Conditions." While we all understand what that means, it is not "known to law." There is no act/section that is specifically "driving too fast for conditions" in Ontario, particularly if you are driving at/under the posted limit. You could get:

- Careless Driving, s. 130; or

- Speeding, s. 128 (at a rate of speed higher than the maximum limit)

But s. 128 deals with speeding only, so a rate of speed higher than the posted limit in effect at the time must be specified. Under those circumstances, the ticket would be quashed. Another example would be "speeding 20 km/h in a 60 km/h zone." Well in that case, the act specified was that you were driving under the speed limit - that is not an offence known to law. Same deal, it prejudices the defendant and if you followed the "default procedure," either the ticket would be tossed or quashed on appeal. Here's a case that describes some of the requirements on the ticket:

R. v. Hargan, 2009

And to quote the Justice in that case:

Livingstone J. in R. .v Wilson, [2001] O.J. No. 4907 (Ont. C.J.) considered that in order for a certificate of offence to be "regular on its face" it must set out:

i) who is commencing the process – an informant;

ii) who is charged under the process – name of the defendant;

iii) what the process is – statute and section number;

iv) where and when the allegation arose; and

v) what the result will be from a conviction from the process – set fine amount.

Radar Identified wrote:

[. Another example would be "speeding 20 km/h in a 60 km/h zone." Well in that case, the act specified was that you were driving under the speed limit - that is not an offence known to law.

Well, ok, um....well WHAT IF it said "Driving too slowly - to wit 20km/hr in a posted 60km/hr zone" HTA 132 and the fine was $85 and totalling $110 ???

hwybear wrote:

Well, ok, um....well WHAT IF it said "Driving too slowly - to wit 20km/hr in a posted 60km/hr zone"

Well, um in that case it would be an offence that IS known to law.

Radar Identified wrote:

hwybear wrote:

Well, ok, um....well WHAT IF it said "Driving too slowly - to wit 20km/hr in a posted 60km/hr zone"

Well, um in that case it would be an offence that IS known to law.

k...I just wanted to ask a "what if"

Actually, come to think of it, shouldn't it be "Unnecessary Slow Driving, to wit 20 km/h in a 60 km/h zone," to be technically accurate?

Radar Identified wrote:

Actually, come to think of it, shouldn't it be "Unnecessary Slow Driving, to wit 20 km/h in a 60 km/h zone," to be technically accurate?

short form wordings do not need to be exact as long as it describes the offence as per section charged.

what if the speed limit is posted at 70km but the ticket said 60km?

would the ticket be wrong?

bob-boy wrote:

what if the speed limit is posted at 70km but the ticket said 60km?

would the ticket be wrong?

Yes the ticket is wrong, but you will have to prove it.

Reflections wrote:

bob-boy wrote:

what if the speed limit is posted at 70km but the ticket said 60km?

would the ticket be wrong?

Yes the ticket is wrong, but you will have to prove it.

how would i prove this with pictures? video?

so who needs to take the pictures? can it be myself?

if i can prove it is wrong do i win the case?

See this link for Guidelines on Submitting Photographs:

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1765.html

What about if the Ticket states for eg. Driver failed to properly wear seat belt, HTA 128 - When I looked up HTA 128 it's speeding. Is this considered a fatal error ??

Hello, I am wondering is there anywhere I can check whether the incorrect offense date will be consider fatal error?

bob-boy wrote:

Reflections wrote:

bob-boy wrote:

what if the speed limit is posted at 70km but the ticket said 60km?

would the ticket be wrong?

Yes the ticket is wrong, but you will have to prove it.

how would i prove this with pictures? video?

so who needs to take the pictures? can it be myself?

if i can prove it is wrong do i win the case?

The speed limit being 70 kph, it sounds like it would be contained within a municipal by-law. Check your municipality's by-laws online (many of them have often-accessed by-laws online), or go to city hall/administrative centre and ask for the by-law that defines the speed limits in your municipality.

Also ask if there have been any recent amendments to the by-law section where the particular speed limit you're interested in is contained, just to be sure that it wasn't the stated speed limit at the time of your ticket, etc.

Would incorrect court hours of operation on the back of the ticket count as a fatal error? I recently received a traffic ticket handled by the Brampton Provincial Offences Court on Ray Lawson Blvd and the back of the ticket states that the court office is open from 8:30am to 5:00pm. As I don't live or work near Brampton, I can only visit the court office if I take time off work. The first time, I was there at 4:45p and the door was locked. I assumed that they closed the doors 15 minutes early in order to finish serving everyone waiting in line. For the 2nd time, I showed up at 4:30p, and the door was still locked! I then called the phone number on the ticket and found out that the court now closes at 4:30pm instead of 5:00pm as stated on the ticket.

As I had no other opportunity to attend due to work commitments, I am now past the deadline and was convicted. If I try going again first thing in the morning and speak to a JP, do you guys think that I would be able to reopen the ticket and set a court date?

You can probably get it reopened for this. If they tell you that you could have called, ask them if they have ever called.........

"please continue to hold".......

Bastards, they would not even allow me to talk to a JP! I had to pay the ticket and have to go to appeals court in October to see if they will even reopen it! Thinking about bringing the police officer to small claims instead because of the time lost off work due to an outdated ticket slip being used which has the wrong court date. At the very least, the officer could have corrected the court hours on the ticket by hand or advised me verbally and all of this would have been avoided!