Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

Re: Requirement for police to identify themselves when asked
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 1:27 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 279
Radar Identified wrote:
"3 pieces of identification" is Sovereign Citizen horse s***.

I totally agree.

Thankfully, the Sovereign Citizen (aka. Freeman) arguments are being readily dismissed by the courts now. After the decision in Meads v. Meads, which has been adapted in Ontario by several courts now, including R. v. Ainsworth, their arguments truly are treated like the horse s*** they really are!

The most entertaining decision dealing with the Sovereign Citizen argument is definitely R. v. Duncan.

I highly recommend everyone read the Duncan decision---especially the footnotes: the judge is hilarious!!! Its a work of literary art!


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Requirement for police to identify themselves when asked
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 1:46 pm 
Offline
VIP

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
Posts: 806
jsherk wrote:
argyll wrote:
Their name would be on the paper that you were served.

CORRECTION: What I meant to say was "If an officer were to violate my charter rights at say a RIDE checkpoint but did NOT lay a charge, then I would not know who they were."

I am not disagreeing with anybody's comments here.

My question again would be:
Is it an unreasonable request to ask an officer for their name and badge number IF neither were easily visible? I would suggest that this is completely reasonable request.


I agree. I have never had a problem giving my name and badge number. Same as being video-taped, I'm doing nothing wrong so fill your boots. I might seize your cell phone if the footage is evidence of a charge such as resist arrest but that's the risk you take. No different than CCTV.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Requirement for police to identify themselves when asked
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 3:46 pm 
Offline
High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
@highwaystar - I have previously read Meads v Meads. The other two are good reads as well, and yes the Duncan one is especially entertaining!

In R. v. Ainsworth it makes mention of R. v. Duncan 2012 O.J. No. 6405 which is different from the the one you mention of R. v. Duncan, 2013 ONCJ 160)

But I cannot find R. v. Duncan 2012 O.J. No. 6405 on Canlii ... anybody know what happened to it and where it can be found?

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Requirement for police to identify themselves when asked
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 3:54 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
jsherk wrote:
Is it an unreasonable request to ask an officer for their name and badge number IF neither were easily visible? I would suggest that this is completely reasonable request.


That is a reasonable request. I don't see anything wrong with it.

highwaystar wrote:
Thankfully, the Sovereign Citizen (aka. Freeman) arguments are being readily dismissed by the courts now. After the decision in Meads v. Meads, which has been adapted in Ontario by several courts now, including R. v. Ainsworth, their arguments truly are treated like the horse s*** they really are!


Oh yes, the Duncan decision was hilarious. BTW - when I lived in Michigan, I volunteered with an organization that, among other things, documented and tracked the actions of so-called "Sovereign Citizens." This was long before their relatively recent growth in Canada, so I was quite familiar with their tactics a LONG time ago. What's dangerous is that their adherents actually believe that these things are correct, and people died as a result (e.g. the shooting death of the two officers in West Memphis a few years ago).

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Requirement for police to identify themselves when asked
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 4:20 pm 
Offline
High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
I spoke with an OPP Inspector today and had a good chat about this identification issue.

He said that as far as he knows there is NO act/statute/regulation that REQUIRES a uniformed police officer to identify themselves to you when you ask, but he would have no issue giving his name and badge number if somebody asked.

All Police are required to carry their warrant card and badge on them when they are on duty, but there is no obligation for a uniformed police officer to show it if you ask.

However he said that OPP policy requires that they wear a name tag (first initial and last name) which should be clearly visible on the outside of their uniform or jacket, so it would not be an issue to ask an officer their name or to see the name tag if it was not clearly visible.

He also confirmed that this was for OPP only and each police force would have their own policy on uniform and where/how identification was displayed.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Requirement for police to identify themselves when asked
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:51 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:21 am
Posts: 504
yo,
if I'm in ma ride, and like yo 5 0 is behind me and they light me up.
you want I should ask him for his ID,
the dude will be like hauling me outta ma ride, slam me on my bonnet and be all up in my stuff,
then down the copshop and black up my hands
oh p leeees dayem yall gota deathwish?

_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Requirement for police to identify themselves when asked
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:59 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 279
jsherk wrote:
...In R. v. Ainsworth it makes mention of R. v. Duncan 2012 O.J. No. 6405 which is different from the the one you mention of R. v. Duncan, 2013 ONCJ 160)
But I cannot find R. v. Duncan 2012 O.J. No. 6405 on Canlii ... anybody know what happened to it and where it can be found?

Its actually the same decision. The Duncan citation used in the Ainsworth decision is actually for "Ontario Judgements"---a Quicklaw citation for unreported decisions. Quicklaw is a paid-based case law database used by legal professionals. Canlii only reports decisions that have actually been published by a reporting service.

When a decision is rendered in Ontario, Quicklaw will publish it using the "OJ" citation----for Ontario Judgements. If its worthy of being reported in a more traditional journal like the Ontario Reports (OR) or Canadian Criminal Cases (CCC), it will be. The proper convention for legal citations in Canada is that you first cite from a traditional reporting service and only refer to an unreported decision when absolutely necessary. This is according to the Canadian Guide to Uniform Legal Citation.

So, if you subscribed to Quicklaw, you'd actually see that additional citation. The judge in the Ainsworth decision SHOULD have cited a published report citation in his decision since they were already available at the time of his judgement. However, no one is going to correct him on such a triviality.

As confirmation, if you look at the Duncan decision, you'll see it was actually decided back in 2012.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Requirement for police to identify themselves when asked
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 7:00 pm 
Offline
High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
@highwaystar - Okay thanks for clarifying. That is good information to know.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Requirement for police to identify themselves when asked
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:09 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Some uniforms, actually most do not have a badge attached to it. All usually have a shoulder crest and majority now have vests / shirts with police written on the front and back.

Some do not carry a badge or business card outside their cruiser while in uniform (potential to drop it anywhere) but do keep those items inside their cruiser. I don't know of anyone that wouldn't give a business card if asked.

Guess if there is doubt of the officer being legit, call 911 and confirm if you are stopped by a real officer. Yes, if you are still moving you can use your cellphone to call 911

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Does Genesis ll radar identify the vehicle plates too?

stu spider

5

497

Fri May 06, 2011 12:20 pm

Stanton View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. be asked for compensation

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

butterfly

15

773

Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:45 pm

admin View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. asked for adjurnment, can i still do 11B?

jojojojo

2

433

Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:47 pm

jojojojo View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Officer never asked to see driver's license

287

2

438

Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:26 pm

287 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. asked 20 people...no definitive answer...proper left turn

tests_scare_me

1

537

Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:39 pm

Simon Borys View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. No radar? What's the proof requirement

BEN

3

745

Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:35 pm

Simon Borys View the latest post

This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Requirement to Open Window?

Hz2P

12

1674

Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:26 pm

curiousottman View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Legal requirement to report accident to Insurer?

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

6rob51

17

3061

Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:52 pm

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Speed sign placement requirement/regulation

Observer135

2

295

Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:41 pm

Ontarioracer91 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. RIDE checkpoint requirement- license insurance registration

jsherk

1

666

Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:23 pm

Mugwug View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Requirement to provide three copies of case law for a motion

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

jsherk

16

441

Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:55 pm

Zatota View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Requirement to yield to bus from bus bay - Section 142.1

admin

0

4061

Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:07 am

admin View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.