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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Mounting plates
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:16 pm 
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While I keep the plate on my motorcycle in the stock location, plenty of my fellow riders either position the plate underneath the tail (it is still visible from behind) or they mount them sideways on the swingarm. Which section do they get charged under for such practices? 13(3)?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:57 pm 
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Improperly displayed plate AND/OR confuse identity of plate

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:08 pm 
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Could you point me to the section specifically referring to proper mounting/displaying of the plates other than what's in 13? It doesn't seem very specific, and I'd like to know more about the letter/application of the law in case I ever want to customise my bike or in case I purchase an already customised used bike.
Speaking of which, what's the view on white LED licence plate bolts?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:04 am 
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Just don't put a license plate on the front of the car.

Thats where they aim the cross hairs on the lidar unit to get your speed.

The license plate reflects those small pulses of light really well. I wonder if it still works or can get a speed with no plate on the front.....


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:10 am 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Just don't put a license plate on the front of the car.

Thats where they aim the cross hairs on the lidar unit to get your speed.

The license plate reflects those small pulses of light really well. I wonder if it still works or can get a speed with no plate on the front.....


Yes, it's only there to help get a reading, that and the legal requirement

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:17 am 
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Can the officer get a reading from the front without a license plate?

Well a radar unit i assume would be able to get a reading although the metal reflective cover would be quite useful.

Although what i am referring to is a lidar unit which is always hand held. Usually lidar is facing on coming traffic to get a reading where as radar can be used in many ways.

But since Lidar is vehicle specific (officer has to pick a target car) and usually the target car's front plate.

Now obviously the officer will notice you have no front plate and probablly write you a ticket but i bet it would be cheaper and less insurance increase then the fine for not having a plate!

So what is to say you could not get a cardboard plate printed very well or a clone of your license plate for the front?

Would this be a charge??? If not that is a good way to still have a plate identifiable on the front and avoid a speeding ticket via a lidar speed reading.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:59 am 
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Yes that would be a charge, and yes lidar will work without front plates. Think of all the states and provinces with no front plate requirements.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:24 am 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Can the officer get a reading from the front without a license plate?

Well a radar unit i assume would be able to get a reading although the metal reflective cover would be quite useful.

Although what i am referring to is a lidar unit which is always hand held. Usually lidar is facing on coming traffic to get a reading where as radar can be used in many ways.

But since Lidar is vehicle specific (officer has to pick a target car) and usually the target car's front plate.

Now obviously the officer will notice you have no front plate and probablly write you a ticket but i bet it would be cheaper and less insurance increase then the fine for not having a plate!

So what is to say you could not get a cardboard plate printed very well or a clone of your license plate for the front?

Would this be a charge??? If not that is a good way to still have a plate identifiable on the front and avoid a speeding ticket via a lidar speed reading.


Light bounces off of everything. The plate, being highly reflective, is a very good target. The lidar guns work by time of flight, time out to target and back divided by 2 gives distance. Then the change in distance over time is calculated and thus speed is given. The gun needs consistant feedback or it won't work. White cars are highly reflective, while black are not as good. If there is no plate it would only reduce the range at which the gun could get a reading.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:48 am 
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FiReSTaRT wrote:
Could you point me to the section specifically referring to proper mounting/displaying of the plates other than what's in 13? It doesn't seem very specific, and I'd like to know more about the letter/application of the law in case I ever want to customise my bike or in case I purchase an already customised used bike.
Speaking of which, what's the view on white LED licence plate bolts?


Improperly displayed plate HTA 7(1)(b)(i)

We read left to right in a level horizontal plane and perpendicular. So I would think this below would be the most applicable.

Confuse Identity of plate HTA 13(1)
No other numbers to be exposed
13. (1) No number plate shall be exposed on any part of a motor vehicle or trailer in such a position or manner as to confuse the identity of the number plate.

LED white bolt bulbs never have seen them. If it illuminates the plate they would be good, if they direct light at motorists behind that is not good.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:04 pm 
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Yep, you don't need a front plate to get nailed by lidar. Michigan, for example, does not require front plates on the car, and police across the state heavily use lidar. When I lived in the Detroit area, police officers would position themselves in semi-concealed positions with lidar and by the time the driver realized they were being tracked (usually within 100 feet of the officer), the officer already had the cruiser in gear.

As for Ontario... hmm... no front licence plate... well... let's see, if I get nailed by lidar, I could get ticketed for speeding, but if I don't have the plate on it, I would get ANOTHER ticket for improper display. No thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:02 pm 
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Ok, so if I buy a bike with a swingarm-mounted plate, I'm definitely putting it back in the stock location.
The reason I was asking about LED bolts is because the taillight on my bike is extruded backwards and looks fairly ugly. It takes about 5min of work to push it inwards, to be almost flush with the tail section, but that would mean that the plate would not get illuminated. That's why I'll give the LED bolts a shot, and worst case scenario, I spend another 5min putting everything back to stock.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:37 pm 
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As long as the bolts illuminate only the plate and do not directly show white light to the rear, you should be fine (i.e., you can't see the actual LED from behind the bike).

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:42 pm 
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Thanks for clearing that up hwybear and reflections.

I always wondered but it would be my guess that not having a front plate would reduce the officers distance of being able to target you.

hwybear have you ever had to lidar a out of province car with no front plates? Does it really reduce distance that much?

I doubt for radar it would even make any difference. I guess the only defence for lidar is a jammer and even then the officer will wonder whats up when he shoots you really close and he can't get a reading.

I guess thats when you drop the doughnut, flick on the HID's, and floor that big old V8!!! :twisted:

Can american vehicles still get tickted for having a radar detector or having a laser jammer device on ontario roads? Even more do the OPP or any LEO have the authority to take it away? (american driver, alberta driver, etc)

How would their insurance treat this. I always wondered if having one would raise insurance anymore in ontario. I believe the max fine is 175 $ and 3 demerit points. Would the insurance company treat this similar to 25 over which also would carry 3 points or would they treat this alot different?

What would happen to the insurance of an out of province or state driver, and even more if the driver is coming from a province with no radar detector laws....

I would guess most of the Officers would have a lidar and radar unit in the car anyways if one failed the other would be ready? I don't see many lidar traps around the GTA i guess alot of the time they need to do radar enforcement. Lidar must be really hard on a 3+ lane highway with heavy traffic and cars all switching lanes, slowing down, speeding up, driving to close.

I have heard the radar units have options for Largest, fastest, slowest vehicle. But lidar if lidar is vehicle specific meaning the officer must target the specific vehicle in which he desires a speed reading this must be really hard on multilane highways with alot of traffic.

That front license plate law really sucks for those with expensive import cars!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:21 pm 
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Drive in Ontario with a radar detector in the vehicle and you will get it seized. Doesn't matter if you're from a place that permits it or not. Same thing if driving through Virginia, which also prohibits possession of radar detectors. Drive through Virginia with a radar detector in your car, even if you're from a place that allows it, and the police provide you with a nice exchange service: Your radar detector for a big fat ticket. Law applies to everyone. I've heard of a few out-of-province motorists who have had their cars impounded under section 172, for example (ouch that's gotta hurt).


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:29 am 
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Are they now illegal in florida to i heard something about that....

Virginia has terrible speeding laws.

In ontario how do insurance companies treat it. I beleive the fine 170 $ for the first offence and 3 demerit points?

How do insurance companies treat this. I always wondered. Let's say you got caught for having one maybee an officer at an intersection saw it on your windshield at a red light. You werent speeding but you did have it.

He gives you a fine for 170 $ and you lose 3 demerit points. How does the insurance company treat this? Maybee this guy has never gotten a ticket lets say. Is that reasonable grounds to jack his rates up as someone who has a stunt driving charge for 50 over?

Also do the 3 demerit points apply for the first time? The fine can go to 1000 for multiple offences?


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