Frustrated - Historic plates

Moderators: Radar Identified, Reflections, admin, hwybear, Decatur, bend

nitsz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:01 pm

Frustrated - Historic plates

by: nitsz on
Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:46 pm

I'm new to this site, and find it very poorly organized. Earlier today, I submitted a post, at least I think I did, titled "historic vehicle plates", yet now I cannot find it, and doubt if it got posted at all. I dunno if I'm not doing something right.


User avatar
Reflections
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Location: somewhere in traffic

Moderator

by: Reflections on
Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:55 pm

According to my notes, you only have one post....this one.....You could try again with "historic plates".
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


nitsz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:01 pm

by: nitsz on
Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:58 pm

Turns out that my previous attempt at posting the following must have failed due to the length of time it took, must have been timed out. So this time I copied it and then pasted for instant results. Here it is:
Earlier this week, I was driving my car no more than a couple of kilometers from my home. It was late with few cars around. I did not commit a driving infraction, but was nonetheless pulled over. When the officer walked up to my window, I asked him "a right turn is allowed on a red there, is it not?", being puzzled as to why I had been pulled over. He said that it is allowed, but I "almost hit another car". This was total b/s, as there were no other cars around when I was making the turn.
He said nothing more about that and asked for my papers, which I showed the officer, and everything was in order. Then he started to complain about my historic vehicle plates, saying that they're to be used only for going to car shows, and since there are no car shows around at 1 am, I should not be driving the car. Speaking in quite a rude and angry manner, he said that he'll let me off this time, but threatened that if he sees me driving the car again, he'll not only give me a ticket for improper use of the plates, but confiscate them, and call my insurance company to tell them I'm using the vehicle improperly. He didn't care when I told him my other car was broken down, he just went on to repeat his threats again. I didn't argue with him, since I didn't want to further feed his likely steroid-induced anger, and just said "yes sir, I understand." After that he handed me my papers and told me to go. Interestingly, he didn't even bother to go back to his car to check my license for warrants, etc.
Now his threat about calling my insurance doesn't at all concern me, since I wasn't doing anything contrary to my policy requirements. What I would be concerned about, however, is if in fact he has the authority to confiscate my plates, even though they're up to date and registered to the vehicle. I looked up that, although historic plates are indeed to be used only for parades or shows organized by car clubs, other uses are also permitted, these being "for purposes of repair, testing, and demonstrations for sale". Now just about every trip in a car can be excused by one of the preceding reasons. I can say I'm going to get my tire fixed. Or get a paint job estimate. Or I just adjusted the timing so I'm testing if it runs better. Or my passanger is interested in buying the car.
In any case, I doubt that there is a single owner of a historic plated vehicle who has never used their vehicle for a purpose other than one stated as permitted in the HTA. I think that the intent here is, or at least certainly should be, that the vehicle isn't used as a primary use vehicle for commercial uses or even commuting to/from work, that there be another vehicle registered to the owner for such purposes. That certainly is the case with me, and I think its ridiculous that a cop would waste his time to harrass a motorist with historic plates just because he happens to be out for a cruise late at night.


nitsz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:01 pm

by: nitsz on
Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:03 pm

I would also like to add, that I owned the vehicle in question almost 15 years, and this is the first time ever that I had an issue with my historic plates. In fact, it was only the 4th time I been pulled over in this car for any reason!


nitsz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:01 pm

by: nitsz on
Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:15 am

I'm surprised nobody has anything to say about this topic!


User avatar
racer
VIP
VIP
Posts: 959
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:27 pm
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Contact:

by: racer on
Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:22 pm

Well, my opinion is that the cop was overreacting for sure, but there is not much you can do really :(. Some suggest a video recorder of sorts though.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1092
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:04 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Posting Awards

Moderator

by: admin on
Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:44 am

nitsz, I would recommend when posting, try to make your posts a bit more organized and formatted with proper paragraph spacing etc...

That will help our members read the essay better, and provide you with faster replies. :P


nitsz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:01 pm

by: nitsz on
Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:44 pm

Once again, simply put, my only question regarding this topic is this: does the officer have, in fact, the legal authority to remove and confiscate my car's historic vehicle plates, when these plates are registered to the vehicle and are up to date with a valid plate sticker?


User avatar
Reflections
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Location: somewhere in traffic

Moderator

by: Reflections on
Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:02 pm

nitsz wrote:Once again, simply put, my only question regarding this topic is this: does the officer have, in fact, the legal authority to remove and confiscate my car's historic vehicle plates, when these plates are registered to the vehicle and are up to date with a valid plate sticker?
No.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


User avatar
hwybear
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2933
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Moderator

by: hwybear on
Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:42 pm

Reflections wrote:
nitsz wrote:Once again, simply put, my only question regarding this topic is this: does the officer have, in fact, the legal authority to remove and confiscate my car's historic vehicle plates, when these plates are registered to the vehicle and are up to date with a valid plate sticker?
No.
yes, if the plates are not being used for their designated intended purpose.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


nitsz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:01 pm

by: nitsz on
Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:57 pm

If that's the case, then that means Ontario is in fact a police state, as someone else on here suggested.
That would mean the cop, on his own, is able to find the defendant guilty on the spot outside a court of law, and immediately administer punishment, quite a severe punishment, I might add, for something that isn't even a safety-related issue.
Even if the defendant is later found not guilty, he would have already been punished by exorbitant towing & storage fees, plate replacement fees, not to mention tremendous inconvenience.
The same can be said for the new so-called "stunt driving" laws.
Yes, Ontario is indeed a police state, where motorists can be considered guilty prior to having their case heard in a court of law, and severely punished on the spot, all entirely at the prosecuting officer's discretion.
This is most certainly unconstitutional, and resembles what often occurs in corrupt third world dictatorships.


User avatar
Reflections
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Location: somewhere in traffic

Moderator

by: Reflections on
Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:38 am

hwybear wrote:yes, if the plates are not being used for their designated intended purpose
You missed what he said, " the legal authority to remove and confiscate my car's historic vehicle plates, when these plates are registered to the vehicle and are up to date with a valid plate sticker?" and on a historic car? I say the officer was over stepping his bounds.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


User avatar
hwybear
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2933
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Moderator

by: hwybear on
Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:30 am

Reflections wrote:
hwybear wrote:yes, if the plates are not being used for their designated intended purpose
You missed what he said, " the legal authority to remove and confiscate my car's historic vehicle plates, when these plates are registered to the vehicle and are up to date with a valid plate sticker?" and on a historic car? I say the officer was over stepping his bounds.
standby......making me dig up stuff :evil:

(OREG 628)
“historic vehicle” means, a motor vehicle that,
(a) is at least 30 years old,
(b) is operated on a highway in parades, for purposes of exhibition, tours or similar functions organized by a properly constituted automobile club or for purposes of repair, testing or demonstration for sale,
(c) is substantially unchanged or unmodified from the original manufacturer’s product, and
(d) does not have attached to it year-of-manufacture plates

So, if a vehicle does not comply with the definition it would then NOT be a be a "historic vehicle". If it is not "historic vehicle" then the plates are not authorized for the vehicle. Eg. person puts their historic plates on their 1970 Corvette, however the vehicle does have a year-of-manufacturer plate. Still unauthorized plates as it does not meet criteria (d).

Unauthorized plates can be seized, driver arrested and vehicle held until disposition of case.
******
I can not recall ever stopping a vehicle with historic plates. Usually those cars "stink" :wink: and I don't want to be anywhere close.
This is my reasoning how I came to the conclusion that the plates can be seized.

I would welcome any opposing views and reasons or even case law......as mentioned, never dealt with this and want to learn too
******
side note...
My brother-in-law has a 1960ish pickup he drives to work everyday, he just has normal plates on it. Still shows his vehicle. I know it is an old vehicle without having a plate tell me.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


User avatar
Reflections
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Location: somewhere in traffic

Moderator

by: Reflections on
Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:33 pm

(b) is operated on a highway in parades, for purposes of exhibition, tours or similar functions organized by a properly constituted automobile club or for purposes of repair, testing or demonstration for sale,
I think this is what the officer was getting at, but does it really matter? If the only reason, going off of the description above in post #3, for being pulled over is that this man was not coming from a parade and he has historic plates on his vehicle, then Officer Barney Fife needs to find something else to do.......besides he could always come back with "I was testing my car", see quote.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics

Return to “General Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests