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Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:37 pm 
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Hey all, my last thread was sort of dead, so decided to ask in a new one.
Received a speeding ticket. Was reduced. On the PON the officer checked (n) - motor vehicle involved.

Couple of questions...

1. Should I bring this up at the beginning of trial as a motion to have the proceedings stayed on the grounds that the certificate has is not correct on it's face? (Yes, I know some have said this is not a fatal error, but it may work to my favour, how can you have a speeding charge if the officer indicates no motor vehicle was involved?)
2. Should I bring it up when the JP asks "How do you plead?" and then indicate that I am not quite sure how to plead as the certificate of offence has left me confused, and then explain how it has left me confused?
3. Bring it up during the trial, to indicate that the officer has made a mistake, and then use that mistake on the certificate of offence if the prosecutor tries to "amend up" the certificate?

Also, on the the back of the PON where the officer writes his/her notes I noticed something interesting. The offence is said to occur at 1:56pm, at the very top of the note section, before anything else has been stated the officer indicated that she tested the radar at 7:30am and again at 5:30pm..... So in essence she wrote that she tested the radar at the completion of her shift (5:30pm) after she stopped me at 1:56pm.... any advice on this?

Thanks for your help...


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:19 am 
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- I'm not sure how much more clear to make it to you... you've already been explained that this is not a fatal flaw and for that reason a question like 'how can I be speeding if motor vehicle is checked as NO' is easily overlooked by the courts.

- Just because you got served your ticket at 1:56pm doesn't mean that he/she needs to complete his/her evidence at the time, and so if she indicates that she tested the equipment again at 5:30, what about that do you find interesting?

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No, I do not work for Toronto Police...
... it is just a name folks :)


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:51 am 
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tdottopcop wrote:
- I'm not sure how much more clear to make it to you... you've already been explained that this is not a fatal flaw and for that reason a question like 'how can I be speeding if motor vehicle is checked as NO' is easily overlooked by the courts.

- Just because you got served your ticket at 1:56pm doesn't mean that he/she needs to complete his/her evidence at the time, and so if she indicates that she tested the equipment again at 5:30, what about that do you find interesting?


Hey, thanks for that wonderfully, well thought out, and insightful comment, however, if anyone else, could possibly advise on the actual questions I've asked (Regarding the (n) - motor vehicle involved), when best to bring this up - prior to trial, or during, or should I not show for trial, see if the JP examines the certificate and whether or not they quash it, and then appeal if they do not, that would be great. In essence, I'm looking at the best strategy to use this to my advantage.

Thanks in advance.


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:36 pm 
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There is no fatal flaw. The ticket may be amended at court and the officer will simply state that there was a motor vehicle involved. Hence, the box with the plate number is probably filled in.
The testing times are consistent with a properly tested radar.


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Location: Ontario
If you are going the fatal error route I would NOT show up for your trial and try to win on appeal. If you go to court they can make an amendment to the certificate if you don't they can't.

So you would wait for your notice of conviction and then head to court to file an appeal. Based of S.9 of the POA. Will it work? I doubt it but it's worth a shot...new law is made all the time so who knows...

Keep us posted.


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:09 am 
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Draiter wrote:
tdottopcop wrote:
- I'm not sure how much more clear to make it to you... you've already been explained that this is not a fatal flaw and for that reason a question like 'how can I be speeding if motor vehicle is checked as NO' is easily overlooked by the courts.

- Just because you got served your ticket at 1:56pm doesn't mean that he/she needs to complete his/her evidence at the time, and so if she indicates that she tested the equipment again at 5:30, what about that do you find interesting?


Hey, thanks for that wonderfully, well thought out, and insightful comment, however, if anyone else, could possibly advise on the actual questions I've asked (Regarding the (n) - motor vehicle involved), when best to bring this up - prior to trial, or during, or should I not show for trial, see if the JP examines the certificate and whether or not they quash it, and then appeal if they do not, that would be great. In essence, I'm looking at the best strategy to use this to my advantage.

Thanks in advance.


You're welcome for my helpful comment- the reason I didn't answer your other questions is because THEY DO NOT MATTER when your ticket WILL NOT be quashed because of this error.

Good luck attempting to get an appeal on conviction- sounds like a lot more work than it's worth, but fill your boots.

_________________
No, I am not the chief of Toronto Police.
No, I do not work for Toronto Police...
... it is just a name folks :)


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:44 am 
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tdottopcop wrote:


You're welcome for my helpful comment- the reason I didn't answer your other questions is because THEY DO NOT MATTER when your ticket WILL NOT be quashed because of this error.

Good luck attempting to get an appeal on conviction- sounds like a lot more work than it's worth, but fill your boots.


Lol. What are you, like 5 years old? If you have nothing of substance to contribute, then don't bother contributing.. Tits on a bull you are....


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Okay bud, well you go through the whole process and come back here and tell me that my advice was incorrect. *Edited by forum*

_________________
No, I am not the chief of Toronto Police.
No, I do not work for Toronto Police...
... it is just a name folks :)


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:24 pm
Posts: 39
tdottopcop wrote:
Okay bud, well you go through the whole process and come back here and tell me that my advice was incorrect. *Edited by forum*


I've seen a bunch of your posts, and its really much more about HOW you are giving advice that is an issue, you have a bone to pick with almost every poster who comes here and asks for help. Maybe you should re-think why and what you are doing here. If you are actually trying to help, drop the attitude and you'll likely find a much more responsive audience, when it really appears you are trying to help and not just dump all over everyone.

Now you have 2 cents to work with

=============

As to the OP, you should check the Ticket Combat website about your questions, as others have said I don't think that is an error you have any ground to stand on, ignored or especially brought up in court. Also, the radar being tested beginning and end of day is exactly what they are supposed to do to my understanding.

Good luck


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:29 pm
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jayjonbeach wrote:
tdottopcop wrote:
Okay bud, well you go through the whole process and come back here and tell me that my advice was incorrect. *Edited by forum*


I've seen a bunch of your posts, and its really much more about HOW you are giving advice that is an issue, you have a bone to pick with almost every poster who comes here and asks for help. Maybe you should re-think why and what you are doing here. If you are actually trying to help, drop the attitude and you'll likely find a much more responsive audience, when it really appears you are trying to help and not just dump all over everyone.

Now you have 2 cents to work with

=============

As to the OP, you should check the Ticket Combat website about your questions, as others have said I don't think that is an error you have any ground to stand on, ignored or especially brought up in court. Also, the radar being tested beginning and end of day is exactly what they are supposed to do to my understanding.

Good luck


I had a feeling I was not the only one who felt this way.

Good on you for posting in the manner in which you did !


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Re: Motor Vehicle Involved (N) Checked - When to bring up.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:32 pm 
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jayjonbeach wrote:
tdottopcop wrote:
Okay bud, well you go through the whole process and come back here and tell me that my advice was incorrect. *Edited by forum*


I've seen a bunch of your posts, and its really much more about HOW you are giving advice that is an issue, you have a bone to pick with almost every poster who comes here and asks for help. Maybe you should re-think why and what you are doing here. If you are actually trying to help, drop the attitude and you'll likely find a much more responsive audience, when it really appears you are trying to help and not just dump all over everyone.

Now you have 2 cents to work with

=============

As to the OP, you should check the Ticket Combat website about your questions, as others have said I don't think that is an error you have any ground to stand on, ignored or especially brought up in court. Also, the radar being tested beginning and end of day is exactly what they are supposed to do to my understanding.

Good luck



Ohhh, yeah, I know it's not a fatal error per se, but who knows... Was more looking for suggestions as to when to bring it up... Think I will bring it up, when I bring up other errors the officer made.
As it stands right now, I am going to seek an adjournment to file a Charter Challenge for none disclosure..
*Edited by forum*
Cheers


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