Electric Cars in Ontario?

According to current regulations, no electric car can be driven in Ontario (and anywhere else in Canada except BC). Do you find it somewhat ridiculous that, despite all the fanfare about the environmentally friendliness talk, and high gas prices moans, we cannot use the most environmentally-friendly cars? Even though we actually make them here in Canada (by Dynasty Electric Car Company, BC)... Sounds like Harper trying to make the most money to his beloved Alberta oil companies.

It's complicated...

I saw a documentary about this subject. Some experts stated that electric cars are "good to go" RIGHT NOW, but the economy is so closely tied to the "internal combustion / gas powered car" industry, that to allow the invasion of maintenance free, all-electric cars would be more than our current society could manage. The HUGE percentage of people that draw their livelihood from the car industry (mechanics, parts retailers, aftermarket parts manufacturers, etc.) make an abrupt change to electric, economically impossible.

Although, I'm pretty sure we had a couple all-electric cars going around town here a couple years ago. Personally, I think they're dangerous... "LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!!!", lol.

Bah, you only repair them a little less often. Let the customer decide what they want, and the mechanic guy better start learning electric engines. Make these cars nice and people will want to buy aftermarket stuff - batteries for once. Besides, gas powered engines will not go away so quick anyway, there will be a 15-25 year gradual transmission, at which point it will not matter anymore, but it doesn't have to be abrupt, but it has to start now. Then we will make the best cars and sell them overseas - all the better for Canada. Don't choke your own emerging industry. Besides, prior to Ford Model T, approximately half of all the world's cars were in fact electric.

Looking around saves way more lives than loud pipes. And those cars you saw could have been hybrids - they are pretty quiet. Don't see anybody actively protesting those vehicles though

racer wrote:

Looking around saves way more lives than loud pipes.

I almost fell off my chair...someone actually said that! I agree 100%.

My reasoning (I am an MC rider) is the transmission of the noise is backwards. You do not get the main noise affect until the MC is very close and past the location. Just like a fighter jet, nice and quiet as it approaches, a quick build just as the jet is at your location and bam, full sound....after it is past.

With normal pipes, open helmet and listening to a radio, my ears are ringing about 10hrs later.....can't imagine sitting on a louder machine, would have to wear hearing protectors. If loud pipes save lives, turn them around and face them forwards.

hwybear wrote:

racer wrote:

Looking around saves way more lives than loud pipes.

I almost fell off my chair...someone actually said that! I agree 100%.

My reasoning (I am an MC rider) is the transmission of the noise is backwards. You do not get the main noise affect until the MC is very close and past the location. Just like a fighter jet, nice and quiet as it approaches, a quick build just as the jet is at your location and bam, full sound....after it is past.

With normal pipes, open helmet and listening to a radio, my ears are ringing about 10hrs later.....can't imagine sitting on a louder machine, would have to wear hearing protectors. If loud pipes save lives, turn them around and face them forwards.

That would look really, and I mean really, cool if we could set them up for flame throwing... . Imagine a bike riding down the road with the flames shooting out the front.......Ghost Rider anyone.......***Evil Laugh***

We should also ban those obnoxious train horns at rural railway crossings, too. After all, everyone should just "look", right? Oh, and those stupid beeping back-up signals on big trucks. I mean, how hard can it be to see the damn thing moving!!

Yah, you guys are right on this one. Quieter is safer

Bookm wrote:

Quieter is safer

Well, according to the logic of "Loud cars saving lives", we should not have a single accident in which a car hits a pedestrian - the pedestrian MUST hear the car coming. Any stats about that hwybear? How many pedestrians are struck by quiet hybrids per year? Also, how many deaf people do we have, or those who crank up their iPod to eardrum-shattering 110 dBs, which makes them deaf for all intents and purposes? You need a jet engine to make them hear anything beyond what the mp3-player is pumping in their ears...

Isn't this thread about electric cars

Reflections wrote:

Isn't this thread about electric cars

Yep, you got that right

Well, Mr. BookM can make a fortune by providing an aftermarket equipment to make noise similar to a loud tailpipe when the electric cars ARE in fact legal to drive here. But why the hold up with these? How come americans, who do not give a squat about the environment can drive the few available models, and we can't? There is nothing in the electric car to explode on crash, no toxic/flammable fumes, etc... Tesla Roadster can outdo a Porsche Carera for acceleration, costing about 2-3 cents a kilometer, while a Mini costs 6-8 cents /km in gas. e-Petition anyone?

racer wrote:

Well, Mr. BookM can make a fortune by providing an aftermarket equipment to make noise similar to a loud tailpipe when the electric cars ARE in fact legal to drive here. But why the hold up with these? How come americans, who do not give a squat about the environment can drive the few available models, and we can't? There is nothing in the electric car to explode on crash, no toxic/flammable fumes, etc... Tesla Roadster can outdo a Porsche Carera for acceleration, costing about 2-3 cents a kilometer, while a Mini costs 6-8 cents /km in gas. e-Petition anyone?

Not to be the bad guy but charging batteries does create toxic fumes and the batterires could blow up if short circuited. There is the possibility of the Canadian winter causing havoc with the cars, rust and corrosion come to mind, that could make them useless come November. Just a thought.

Reflections wrote:

racer wrote:

Well, Mr. BookM can make a fortune by providing an aftermarket equipment to make noise similar to a loud tailpipe when the electric cars ARE in fact legal to drive here. But why the hold up with these? How come americans, who do not give a squat about the environment can drive the few available models, and we can't? There is nothing in the electric car to explode on crash, no toxic/flammable fumes, etc... Tesla Roadster can outdo a Porsche Carera for acceleration, costing about 2-3 cents a kilometer, while a Mini costs 6-8 cents /km in gas. e-Petition anyone?

Not to be the bad guy but charging batteries does create toxic fumes and the batterires could blow up if short circuited. There is the possibility of the Canadian winter causing havoc with the cars, rust and corrosion come to mind, that could make them useless come November. Just a thought.

Yes, you are right, Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries do give off toxic fumes, however, the batteries used in electric cars use Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) batteries. I assume you do have a rechargeable Li-Ion battery powered device (cellphone, mp3 player, camera, etc.). What was the last time you saw that battery give off toxic (or any other) fumes when you charged it up? Also, Li-Ion batteries actually work much better cold (-10 C) than warm (+30 C). Besides, your car's battery has to output a prodigious amount of current when starting the car. You can actually drive a gas-powered car on the battery charge, if you have a manual tranny (not for very long, mind you, but the power output is actually greater than that of the gas engine at 3500 rpm). Yet I do not see anyone complaining about their leads getting too corroded come November. Higher voltage means lower current for the same power output, and it is the current that is responsible for the corrosion of the leads. I cannot argue with the short-circuit point, but then again, what was the last time someone had a cigarette while filling up the gas tank? You gotta be pretty dumb to short a 15 kWh battery, hell, you'd win the Darwin prize on my list!

racer wrote:

Yes, you are right, Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries do give off toxic fumes, however, the batteries used in electric cars use Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) batteries. I assume you do have a rechargeable Li-Ion battery powered device (cellphone, mp3 player, camera, etc.). What was the last time you saw that battery give off toxic (or any other) fumes when you charged it up? Also, Li-Ion batteries actually work much better cold (-10 C) than warm (+30 C). Besides, your car's battery has to output a prodigious amount of current when starting the car. You can actually drive a gas-powered car on the battery charge, if you have a manual tranny (not for very long, mind you, but the power output is actually greater than that of the gas engine at 3500 rpm). Yet I do not see anyone complaining about their leads getting too corroded come November. Higher voltage means lower current for the same power output, and it is the current that is responsible for the corrosion of the leads. I cannot argue with the short-circuit point, but then again, what was the last time someone had a cigarette while filling up the gas tank? You gotta be pretty dumb to short a 15 kWh battery, hell, you'd win the Darwin prize on my list!

I mean shorting from corrosion etc from water getting into the storage compartment. I have yet to see a perfectly sealed car, ever. Unfortunately electric motors draw the most current when accelerating and with those two things in mind what would the lifespan of the batteries be, here in Ontario??????

racer wrote:

According to current regulations, no electric car can be driven in Ontario (and anywhere else in Canada except BC)...

Dumb question: What law is it that prohibits these cars? I realize that a law can always be found that makes just about any vehicle illegal (my own sedate and absolutely stock Hyundai Elantra GT would fail the Motor Vehicle Safety Act Standard 101.16(b) and (c), should any police officer decide to call me on it, because I can't vary the level of brightness on the radio controls), but how do they outlaw electric cars? Does something specify fossil fuels only?

You could argue that any plug-in electric cars in Ontario would run primarily on coal (or nuclear power), since that's how most of the electricity on the grid here is generated. The pollution caused by generating the electricity would just be somewhere else.

I guess that question was dumber than I thought.

According to the regulation, Electric Car Companies can not sell electric cars in Ontario, Canada as of yet.

You are however allowed to drive them. There is no law against driving them in Ontario, according to the OHTA.

"The problem, however, is that we can't buy one. Although the car is now available for sale in 48 US States, no Canadian government has approved it for sale in Canada. In fact, Queens Park refused to even entertain the idea until Al Gore cornered Dalton McGuinty earlier this year and insisted that he make it happen."

Check out this article:

http://www.blogto.com/environment/2007/ ... m_sell_it/

OK, thanks, admin. I guess the legislation (whatever it is) is aimed at the golf cart type vehicles: they're not outlawed because they're not powered by an internal combustion engine, but because they're too slow to blend with other traffic and/or don't offer occupants enough protection in a crash and/or fail to meet other safety requirements.

I don't see a minimum attainable speed requirement in the HTA, but it may be in some other legislation.

Maybe drivers of low-speed electrics could be charged under R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 132 (1), "No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances." But, still, we're seeing more and more of those "mobility scooters" on the roads in towns and cities, increasingly being driven in (or alongside) normal traffic, and I doubt those folks are getting ticketed very often, possibly because "the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation."

It will be interesting to see what happens when (and if) the Tesla Roadster or something like it starts showing up in Ontario. It's hard to imagine what existing legislation could block that sort of car (unless the powerful batteries were deemed to be explosives or dangerous materials under 112 (1)?).

It seems to mostly be for safety reasons as some of them being produced are not considered since there is a legislation that forbids the use of low-speed electric vehicles in Ontario.

But here is an article that talks about a possible change to that:

http://www.wheels.ca/article/28744