Dump Truck/Debris/Chipped Windshield ?'s

I was on my way into work this a.m. moving eastbound on the QEW/403 at the Ford plant and got hit with a mindfield of debris coming from a dump truck about 5-6 car lengths ahead of me. Two chips on the drivers' side of the windshield and possible other damage occurred as a result of this. It was an insane amount of debris, small, and I couldn't tell if it was metal or rocks, or both. I got the license #, reported it to OPP, and got an occurrence number. Officer told me that if I do not get contacted by the company (I tracked them down and called them - and officer confirmed the license # was registered to this company), he will treat it as a fail to remain.

It is going to cost me a minimum of $90.00 to get these fixed and I want them to pay. I do not want to go through insurance because it will STILL cost me $90.00 due to my deductible. I want to be reimbursed.

Do you know any recourse I may have if they decide to play hardball and play the "Too bad, that's what insurance is for" card? It really isn't in their best interest to do so, and what is the repercussions of the OPP treating this as a Fail to Remain if they, as the officer said, decide to be jerks about this and not call me back or pay? The officer called the company too, and told me that he would call me back this afternoon to find out if I have heard from this company's logistic's manager. If I haven't by then, he'll proceed with the fail to remain. I already left a message with the logistic's manager of this company at about 8am this morning. Should I call back, wait, or what?

I'm just so sick of unsecure loads doing damage like this. I've already had to fix my windshield for a chip when this happened a couple of years ago. Same scenario, but not a mindfield of debris. I never reported it or made a fuss. This time, I am, if not for the amount of debris, then for the fact that it is not fair that I get stuck with the bill for damage caused by someone else's failure to secure their cargo. That's THEIR responsibility. If the first rock/debris would've hit my windshield and not the top of my car, my windshield would've been shattered and I probably not in a condition to be typing this out this morning.

Going on the officer's option to charge with "fail to remain," would this be considered an accident where fault lies with the truck driver (unsecure load)? If so, no deductible on your end, and rates cannot be affected.

If insurance decides that this would be covered under comprehensive coverage like vandalism would be, then there will be a deductible and you may lose your no-claims discount. I would go after the truck's company in this case. Make sure the insurance company knows about the plate number and the police report, as that made the difference in my case as to which type of coverage applied to the damages.

If insurance will cover you under DCPD, then report all damages from this incident like paint chips and small dents. Unless your car is really old, a few rocks won't be enough to "total" the car, but insurance should cover a repaint of the hood if that was damaged. It would be about $300 for the repaint on your own dime.

Going on the officer's option to charge with "fail to remain," would this be considered an accident where fault lies with the truck driver (unsecure load)? If so, no deductible on your end, and rates cannot be affected.

Yes, I believe so, and that's why he probably said that it would be in the trucking company's best interest to pay out of pocket and that if they decided to be jerks, he would treat it as a fail to remain.

I just tried to call the logistic's guy again at this company and the stupid receptionist kept putting me through to voicemail even though I told her I had to speak to someone, somewhere, LIVE, with respect to an accident that involved OPP or else the company was going to be held liable.

Sigh

Call your insurance company - if you can confirm that this would go under DCPD coverage, then just file the claim. Settling outside of insurance is just a courtesy when you are 0% at-fault, and my courtesy would be used up if they kept sending me to voicemail.

If this would be covered under comprehensive, though, that's different - you'll want them to think you are doing them a favour, but really you don't want to go through insurance as it could affect your discounts.

Meh, just called my insurance broker and it would go through comprehensive.

No worries though, if they decide to be jerks, I'll just let the officer who is doing the report know and he'll charge them with fail to remain and I'll send them a bill with the occurence number/copy of the report to them. It'll be about $90.00 to fix the chips, but if I do have to replace my windshield, it's small claims court time.

About 10 years ago I had a similiar incident around that same location in front of the Ford Plant. A metal "dangerous material" sign fell off a tanker in front of me, and hit my car, it caused $1000+ of damage.

I was pretty shaken up by the incident, since it could have gone through the front windshield if it had bounced differently, so I didn't get the tankers info. I just contacted my insurance company and had to pay the comprehensive deductible.

However about 6 months later I received a surprise cheque from the insurance company reimbursing my deductible as they had reclassifed the incident to an accident.

Keep after the insurance company to cover your deductible.

I am not happy. I spoke with the logistic's manager and basically, he said he wasn't about to set a precedent and pay for my windshield repair and that is what insurance is for. I told him my deductible wouldn't cover it and he said that there was no load on the truck, therefore what I said happened, basically, didn't. Then I got angry.

I told him that this has happened before to me but I never reported it because it was a one-off. This time, however, it was a maelstorm of debris and if the first piece of debris had've hit my windshield and not the top of my car, I would not be talking to him this morning.

I am pissed, and am still sending them the bill. I told him that the officer said that he would treat it as a fail to remain. He got mad then, saying that the driver knew nothing about it. Since Eugene called me, it probably won't be treated as anything.

So, I'm out $90.00 and they did the damage? WTF kind of deal is that BS?

And if they say that they cannot fix my windshield and have to replace it, you had better BET I will be suing them for the cost.

Marquisse wrote:

I am not happy. I spoke with the logistic's manager and basically, he said he wasn't about to set a precedent and pay for my windshield repair and that is what insurance is for. I told him my deductible wouldn't cover it and he said that there was no load on the truck, therefore what I said happened, basically, didn't. Then I got angry.

I told him that this has happened before to me but I never reported it because it was a one-off. This time, however, it was a maelstorm of debris and if the first piece of debris had've hit my windshield and not the top of my car, I would not be talking to him this morning.

I am pissed, and am still sending them the bill. I told him that the officer said that he would treat it as a fail to remain. He got mad then, saying that the driver knew nothing about it. Since Eugene called me, it probably won't be treated as anything.

So, I'm out $90.00 and they did the damage? WTF kind of deal is that BS?

And if they say that they cannot fix my windshield and have to replace it, you had better BET I will be suing them for the cost.

I am willing to put money on it that trucking companies get this all the time. I drive past gravel pits all the time and .....tink, tink go the marbles....anywho, small claims will be the place for you, good luck.

Yeah, I'll not bother if it's under $100.00. He's claiming there was no load and it was rocks from the road. Bull excrement. A littany of rocks does not come from the road when it is a disposal truck in front. Common sense, and, he forgets, I was driving on the same paved road. Yeah, 6 car lengths behind and I'm getting 7-10 hits of "road debris", even when moving to the middle lane. He obviously doesn't realize that denying responsibility doesn't negate responsibility. His answer was "If I pay for your repairs, I'll have to pay for everyone's repairs." Duh, if his fleet causes the damage, he should.

However, it's not worth Small Claims Court for anything under $500.00 IMO and I' not going to waste my time trying to go after them for $100.00 or less. If it's under $500.00, I'll go after them, but probably give up before small claims court.

However, they have no idea just what kind of adversary I can be. If I feel strongly about something, I do not give up until I've reached the end of the line. I will latch onto this like a bulldog and not let go. And I will win.

I will not go popping blood vessels until I get the prognosis on my windshield though. Not worth it.

Reflections wrote:

Marquisse wrote:

I am not happy. I spoke with the logistic's manager and basically, he said he wasn't about to set a precedent and pay for my windshield repair and that is what insurance is for. I told him my deductible wouldn't cover it and he said that there was no load on the truck, therefore what I said happened, basically, didn't. Then I got angry.

I told him that this has happened before to me but I never reported it because it was a one-off. This time, however, it was a maelstorm of debris and if the first piece of debris had've hit my windshield and not the top of my car, I would not be talking to him this morning.

I am pissed, and am still sending them the bill. I told him that the officer said that he would treat it as a fail to remain. He got mad then, saying that the driver knew nothing about it. Since Eugene called me, it probably won't be treated as anything.

So, I'm out $90.00 and they did the damage? WTF kind of deal is that BS?

And if they say that they cannot fix my windshield and have to replace it, you had better BET I will be suing them for the cost.

I am willing to put money on it that trucking companies get this all the time. I drive past gravel pits all the time and .....tink, tink go the marbles....anywho, small claims will be the place for you, good luck.

Trucking companies get this ALL the time.

scenario: Im driving along the 401 pulling a 53" flatbed. I run over a stone in the road. it flies up-and BANG! your winshields gone.

Liability? its considered a "road hazard"-call your insurance. your deductible applies.

scenario 2: im driving a dumptruck loaded with 3/4 gravel. I have my tarp over my load. Unforeseeably, a stone flies out. windshield gone.

Prove it didnt come off the road. Call your insurance. And generally the OPP or the MTO Motor Carrier Enforcement will only take a report.

NOW- if a piece of the truck flies off- different story.

Now the most commont pieces of a truck to fly off

1) "Gators" aka Recaps or Retread from blow outs-and generally those become "road hazards", because usually its someone else running them over after they've been laying on the road to a previous blowout. hence-is it the fault of someone else running it over and hitting your car? no- road hazard.

if it flies off the truck and immediatly hits your car-yes-then its a Direct Compensation Property Damage claim. No deductible.

Actually, it is a liability on their part, and I know that they get it all the time. I'm not going to bother since it'll cost $90.00 to fix the windshield and I am not going to bother with fixing the dent over my windshield. However, claiming it is a "road hazard" does not negate responsibility. It most certainly came off the truck and not kicked up from the tires. When I say it was a meteor shower from 6 car lengths away, I am not exaggerating for the sake of entertainment. I am damn lucky that the first piece of debris did not hit my windshield. It was a piece of something a little smaller than a golf ball that hit the top of my car, has dented it, and is on the driver/middle side just above the windshield. If it hit my windshield, I would've been seriously hurt and most certainly would've been looking at a $500.00 bill to replace my windshield. You can bet I'd be looking to the disposal company to reimburse and would go as far as I could to get it. As for comprehensive insurance covering it, not likely, given it would still fall under my deductible, therefore I would still be out of pocket.

As for proving it did not come off the road, I think the damage to my vehicle would do so quite nicely. Also, there is more damage on my right fender from when I moved over into the middle lane and was STILL getting pelted. While things like this do happen, this situation was above and beyond "road hazard" expectations and it is not right to place responsibility on the drivers sharing the road with these vehicles to absorb the costs. It's up to these companies to ensure their loads, or "empty bins" are secure so those of us sharing the roads are kept safe. Tires would not have kicked up that size and amount of debris, and the debris would not have flown as high and for as long as it did were it from the road.

Off_Camber wrote:

scenario 2: im driving a dumptruck loaded with 3/4 gravel. I have my tarp over my load. Unforeseeably, a stone flies out. windshield gone.

Prove it didnt come off the road. Call your insurance. And generally the OPP or the MTO Motor Carrier Enforcement will only take a report.

I'll bite. I was following a gravel truck one day, 2 week old truck of mine, and bam a 2 and a half inch rock hits my windshield. He had his tarp on but the rock came from the fender of the truck. That was avoidable with a simple walk around.....

You will have better luck going after your insurance company to cover it under DCPD, especially since you have the plate number and a police report. Quote them everything you can find on commercial (or even non-commercial) vehicles needing to secure their load while on a highway. Your insurance company will then bill the trucking company, and they have more pull than just one citizen.

Squishy wrote:

You will have better luck going after your insurance company to cover it under DCPD, especially since you have the plate number and a police report. Quote them everything you can find on commercial (or even non-commercial) vehicles needing to secure their load while on a highway. Your insurance company will then bill the trucking company, and they have more pull than just one citizen.

yep---and its called SUBROGATION

but this requires a police report.

you know,,,its a very touchy subject--i mean pebbles and chunks of dirt.

one time years ago i was hauling a load and i was up in Nipigon and a chunk of ice came flying off the trailer ( ice and snow build up) and some guy followed me into the Petro Pass. What insued was a very irrate motorist whom shouldnt have been so far up my butt he was tickling my tonsils in the very first place--- hence "following too close"

There is a police report, which is why I was a bit surprised when the broker said it was under comprehensive. I was pretty much expecting that, but still surprised. Ultimately, I don't think the trucking company will even get a slap on the wrist, as they will just ignore the bill, ignore the collection agency, and then the insurance company will deem the outstanding amount too small to take to court. You still get your repairs though.

Off-topic, but while Marquisse is gone, shh! - aren't there workplace safety rules against truckers clearing their trailer tops of ice? It's above the height limit where you need to be tied off, and there is no place to tie off to. At least that's what I've heard.

Off-topic, but while Marquisse is gone, shh! - aren't there workplace safety rules against truckers clearing their trailer tops of ice? It's above the height limit where you need to be tied off, and there is no place to tie off to. At least that's what I've heard.

Hey now, that's not very nice, Squishy.

There is a serious hazard to it because there is no way to safely do so. They have to get up and chisel the ice, which can get thick, off the top of the trailer. Employment legislation prohibits workers from climbing without approved safety equipment.

My friend and her hubby have owned a trucking company for 16 years (was her hubby's Dad's) and the ice falling is treated much the same way as debris falling from the truck, unless someone is seriously hurt or killed, or major calamity such as multi-vehicle accidents occurs, and the discretion lies with the officer to broadly interpret legislation. In those cases, charges are often laid. There are currently no laws on the books relating directly to this, except for Quebec. Private members' bills have shown up often only to die off, and usually happen when such a calamity happens as a result of falling ice. It's a vastly under-appreciated hazard, largely ignored by both the commercial trucking industry and the government. Some of these ice sheets can weight in the tonnes.

Marquisse wrote:

ice falling is treated much the same way as debris falling from the truck.

Been lurking on this thread with interest -- like most drivers I too have been hit by stuff flying off trucks (including an aerodynamic 4'x4' piece of corrugated sheet metal two or three years ago), but figured it wasn't worth making a fuss because trucking companies are pretty much immune until somebody is injured or killed. As Off_camber says, "Trucking companies get this ALL the time." Ho hum, and what's for dinner?

Ice, though, I have so far seen only flying, not hitting anything but the roadway. Is it also just something that truckers can routinely ignore?

Hi Proper1, Yes, they do get it all the time but that does not make them immune, nor does the fact that insurance provide for the repair (actually, unless there is damage over $1000, it still comes out of our pocket) under comprehensive mean that we cannot go after them civilly (providing it is not frivolous and the damage is quite extensive). It doesn't make sense to bother if the repair/damage amount is relatively minor, but on principle, it is NOT at all fair to expect motorists to suck it up if the debris comes from their truck.

Ice can cause serious accidents and death. A vast majority of the industry ignores it, and a good percentage of drivers have stories to tell about the damage caused by sheets of ice flying off of their trailers.

Here's some articles that expand on the issue:

http://www.todaystrucking.com/features. ... ocID=21462

http://www.truckinjurylawyerblog.com/20 ... e-tragedy/

Marquisse wrote:

Hey now, that's not very nice, Squishy.

For damage under $1000, what do you mean by it coming out of our pocket? Is that because of your deductible? I still think you have a good chance at pushing them to cover it under DCPD with the plate and police reports. It's like someone backing into your vehicle in a parking lot - it's under comprehensive if no one saw it happen, but if you have a plate then it is covered under DCPD. The insurance company just wants to know who to go after.

Yeah, my deductible is higher than the cost will be for repairing the windshield, even if it turns out I need a new one. If I opt to fix the dents (especially the major one overtop my windshield), it may take it over the deductible. If that's the case, I will go the route you are talking about. Easier on the nerves, I've paid for the coverage, and hell I've not made a claim since 1996 when a car t-boned mine while mine was parked.

However, if my insurance company doesn't budge and keeps it under comprehensive, I'll have to shell out anything under $1000.00 in deductible. That is what really angers me. It wasn't my fault. I wasn't travelling too close even by the wildest stretch of imagination, and I know it came from the bin on the truck. IMO, it was negligence on the part of the operator as, although they claim the bin was empty, there was obviously enough debris to catapault it from the bin and with such velocity that it hit me - and kept hitting me. It was most certainly not kicked up from the road.

So, it's only if I am stuck with paying hundreds out of my own pocket to fix my car that I will get litigious, and especially so if my insurance company doesn't recategorize it. I already have a police report that, for the purposes of insurance, classified it as a "fail to remain". The Officer did that because of the extent of damages and he knew I would have a problem with the transport company taking responsibility. I find out tomorrow exactly what it is going to cost to repair. I am crossing my fingers that they can repair my windshield and not have to replace it, and my brother is going to take a look at the damage on the body of my vehicle tomorrow to advise me how to fix the damage.

Squishy wrote:

Off-topic, but while Marquisse is gone, shh! - aren't there workplace safety rules against truckers clearing their trailer tops of ice? It's above the height limit where you need to be tied off, and there is no place to tie off to. At least that's what I've heard.

I hauled B-Train flat decks for many years, and the rule of thumb was if it was 3 feet off the deck of the trailer a CSA approved fall arrest/restraint was mandatory under WSIB.

as for a driver going to the top of a Trailer which a regular 48' or 53' Van trailer is 13'6"---thats a no no.

However, quite a few trucking companies have a systym where the driver drives under a rack that scrapes ice and snow off the top of the trailer