Caught speeding, Officer wrote wrong location

Moderators: Reflections, admin, hwybear, Radar Identified, Decatur, bend

25jai
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined:

Caught speeding, Officer wrote wrong location

Unread post by 25jai on

Hi guys,
First time posting but I've tried searching for similar threads close to my case but haven't found a definite answer yet, so here's my situation.
I got caught speeding back in early December 2014, it was a Sunday night, in Markham. I was going home from a friends house in Markham Road.
I got caught past Woodbine Ave, and officer says I was going over 30 on a 70km/hr. I was not over 30, but maybe over 20-25, but it's his words against mine. Also it was probably approximate because he said he had to chase me down.
Anyway, he went and wrote me down, then came back and said he reduced it to 15 over. He mentioned to me that I can go to court if I want, but he said that he wrote down that I was over 30 and it would be that speed if I do go to trial.
Now I checked the ticket and everything looks correct except for the offence location. I know that wrong location is not a fatal error, so I know that I still have to go to trial. The location was on the same road, but the intersecting road was written on a small street beside Markham Road, which is 4 blocks away from where I was pulled over (Past Woodbine Ave).

My question is, what are some of my defenses that I can use to argue this case, regarding using the wrong location written?

I've gotten the trial date in mail on April 8, and trial date is August 26.
I sent a mail to the court office to request disclosure the next week. I haven't gotten back any disclosures yet. How long does it usually take? Should I re-request one by going to the court office and hand it to them (I live close by)?

Thanks for all the help in advance.


argyll
VIP
VIP
Posts: 888
Joined:

Posting Awards

Unread post by argyll on

If he had to chase you he will have written where the offence occurred, not where he pulled you over.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


bend
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1152
Joined:

Posting Awards

Moderator

Unread post by bend on

25jai wrote:Hi guys, I got caught past Woodbine Ave, and officer says I was going over 30 on a 70km/hr. I was not over 30, but maybe over 20-25, but it's his words against mine.
Speeding is an absolute liability offense. You were either speeding or you weren't. There's no in between. "I was speeding, but..." means your trial is already over before it begins.
25jai wrote:Now I checked the ticket and everything looks correct except for the offence location. I know that wrong location is not a fatal error, so I know that I still have to go to trial. The location was on the same road, but the intersecting road was written on a small street beside Markham Road, which is 4 blocks away from where I was pulled over (Past Woodbine Ave).
As already pointed out, the location of the offense isn't necessarily going to be where you were pulled over. One doesn't have anything to do with the other.


25jai
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined:

Unread post by 25jai on

bend wrote:As already pointed out, the location of the offense isn't necessarily going to be where you were pulled over. One doesn't have anything to do with the other.
The problem is I do not know for sure where he started following me. If he did not start following me where the location written on the ticket (4 large blocks), and maybe only 2 blocks away from where I was pulled over, does that make a difference? How would he know if I was speeding at the location written on the ticket?


bend
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1152
Joined:

Posting Awards

Moderator

Unread post by bend on

You can request disclosure. The officer would have written down all the relevant information regarding your stop (how he determined your speed, when, where, etc).


25jai
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined:

Unread post by 25jai on

bend wrote:You can request disclosure. The officer would have written down all the relevant information regarding your stop (how he determined your speed, when, where, etc).
I have, pretty much right after I received notice of trial in the mail. It's almost a month and I haven't gotten anything in mail yet. Should I be worried? Should I go in person and hand them a new request?
Also, if in fact they do not give me disclosure, how do I prove that I did request if I sent my first request through regular mail?


bend
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1152
Joined:

Posting Awards

Moderator

Unread post by bend on

It's not uncommon to wait 4-6 weeks. You could probably wait a couple more weeks before sending a second request.


25jai
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined:

Unread post by 25jai on

Just an update on my case regarding requesting disclosures. My trial date is August 26, and I've gone to the prosecutor's office and they told me to call in when it's 2 months left.
So I called in last week, and they confirmed that they did receive my original disclosure request letter, however they still do not yet have any disclosures to give to me. The lady I talked to said that she has recorded that I have called in to follow up on the disclosure request, and if I still haven't gotten any calls or mails from the prosecutor's office by the trial date, I should talk to the prosecutor on trial day.

My questions are, is this enough for following up for disclosure request? Would the lady marking down that I have followed up on requesting disclosure be valid for showing that I made effort?
If I do not get disclosure from the office, what are my next steps?

Thanks in advance


25jai
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined:

Unread post by 25jai on

My court date is August 26, and I still have not received disclosure from the prosecutor's office. I've made 3 attempts on requesting, the first one being when I got my notice of trial in the mail in April, and I mailed them.
Second attempt was when I called in 2 months before the trial date, early July. They received my initial mail and also noted that I have called in. I left my number for them to call as well.
Third time was July 13th and I handed the same request in person. The lady stamped my letter and gave me a copy for record.

I'm guessing I will have to file for form 4F because they are violating my Section 7? When should I do the filing, before 15 days of my trial or after 15 days of my trial (August 11)?

Also, if anyone have experiences with filing form 4F, if they can provide a bit of detail of the process, that would be really helpful and appreciated.

Thanks


Nobis
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined:

Unread post by Nobis on

Hey man,

you can file for a stay but u must do so "at least" 15 days before court date.
the reason why i have at least in quotations is because there is a very complicated way of identifying what exactly those 15 days means. for example

"Therefore "at least fifteen days before the court date" means you cannot count:
-the day you submitted the application;
-the day the application is received; and
-the court date."
The above information is from ticket combat which i suggest to take a good read at. it will explain also how to fill out an 4F form.

but u are correct about the section 7 violation. do some case law research and make sure that you have some backup to bring up in court as well.
im not expert but from what iv been reading, sometimes they adjurn ur court date and they demand that the disclosure be given to you by a certain date.

hope that helps.






Post Reply

Return to “General Talk”