Speeding Caught on new sign

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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:46 pm

Speeding Caught on new sign

by: eshum on
Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:05 pm

Hi all,
I'm new to this forum, but i find it a good leisure read as well.

In early feb this year
I was driving E/B on steeles passing the 404 bridge when I was caught after crossing woodbine for speeding over 8km/h on a 50 in the morning on my way to work.

I am currently scheduled to court in Nov and I am wondering how I can fight it off.

I noticed the road side was relatively new, before Woodbine, the road speed is 60km/h for many years, hence I did not noticed there was a new sign for 50, I am wondering is that a good argument? where can I find a site that shows the installation dates on these speed signs?

Any good way to fight it off?

Thanks ~
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by: rayinbarrie on
Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:06 pm

This may not be directly on-topic with your situ but the 40 kph speed zone I was recently ticketed in is notably absent of any "Reduced Speed Ahead" (RSA) signs on its approaches. A poster guided me to the HTA section dealing with signs and, alas, no mention of such. Here in Barrie it seems (from being sensitized & aware as I drive around) that every other reduced speed zone in-town (except for the one I got caught in) has such warning signs. I find it hard to imagine the City would have spent money & time installing these signs without being obligated to and, indeed, if they didn't get the required design & spec from the HTA, does this mean they just cooked up their own? Funny how these signs all resemble one-another from one municipality to the next.

The missing RSA sign defence probably won't do me much good because the 40 kph zone I was ticketed in was changed from a 50 quite some time ago (I ought to know I've lived nearby for years). In your case, if you can prove that the zone was only just recently changed, your argument might hold just a bit more water, though certainly not leak-proof. Hope this helps and I'll certainly stop back again if I find RSA sign requirement info in the HTA.
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by: tdottopcop on
Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:41 am

The defence of 'well, it was a new sign' will not help you in court.

if you go to court and say, 'Yeah, I was travelling faster than they posted speed because I didn't notice the new sign', you'll have convicted yourself (having admitted to committing the offense) and you'll have done the prosecution's job.

My advice is to attend court and speak with the prosecutor to see if they can offer you a lower fine or such. But the comment's advice above, suggesting your defence will hold water, is totally incorrect and will only serve to help find you guilty.
No, I am not the chief of Toronto Police.
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by: Radar Identified on
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:21 am

Given that the speed you'd be convicted of (8 km/h over) is such a meagre offence (really? 8 km/h?! Who tickets for 8 over?!) I'd go to court and see what is in a plea bargain, if nothing else.

Fight the ticket, and put in a disclosure request. The disclosure request will help you get the evidence the Prosecutor intends to use against you. For speeding offences, this usually means you'd ask for the officer's notes, and relevant parts of the laser/radar manual. Those are what you need. Take a look at the "Courts and Procedures" section of this website for advice on putting together a disclosure request. Once you've got the disclosure, you can see if there's anything that's missing or incorrect.

Otherwise, if your trial date is more than 11 months from the date of the offence, you can also file an 11b to get the charges thrown out. (See "Courts and Procedures" section.)

There is no requirement in the Highway Traffic Act or in the Ontario Traffic Manual that requires "Reduced Speed Ahead" to be posted. Some municipalities may have by-laws requiring those signs to be posted, or they may do so for safety or awareness reasons, but it is not required provincially so the absence of such a sign won't help you. Likewise, there's no law requiring any sort of "education period" where you can get pulled over and simply warned "hey, we changed the speed limit sign." Sometimes, as a courtesy, they'll put up those big circular "NEW" signs, but whether they are present or not won't help.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
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