Hey everyone, I was charged with a "Disobey Sign" under Ontario HTA sec.182(2) after making a left turn onto a road where an officer was conducting a new "no left turn" enforcement. For the record, I didn't see ANY signs that said no left turn, it wasn't at all clear that you couldn't make a left turn. At the time that this happened, 2 vehicles ahead of me also made the same turn about a minute before I did, however the officer decided to pull me over. Okay, fine. I was polite and kindly asked the officer what I had been pulled over for, and the officer explained that they were doing a no left turn enforcement. I explained to the officer that I didn't see any sign that said no left turn and that I wasn't even from the area (I drove someone to a store near there as a favour). Regardless, I surrendered my license/reg/ins like they asked without any struggle and sure enough, the officer comes back with a ticket. While handing me the ticket, the officer said "I see you're not local to here and I see you have a clean driving, however I'm issuing you a ticket. Select option 3 on the back, give them my badge number and they'll get rid of it for you." So, in other words, I was given zero break whatsoever from the get-go. I received the court date in June, and requested disclosure about 2 weeks ago. My questions are: 1. My first trial date is on Monday and they just notified me that my disclosure is ready today (Friday), there is no way I'm going to get there by the time they close as I live pretty far from where the court is. I'm going to end up receiving my disclosure on the day I attend court. Can I go into court and request that it be adjourned so that I may have enough time to properly prepare/consult with a paralegal or lawyer to examine my options? I DO NOT want to get muscled into going to trial. 2. How exactly should I go about doing this ^? (the officer will most likely be there). 3. Can I use the claim that the officer made ("Select option 3 on the back, give them my badge number and they'll get rid of it for you.") as a defense if I am muscled into court? PLEASE HELP.
Hey everyone,
I was charged with a "Disobey Sign" under Ontario HTA sec.182(2) after making a left turn onto a road where an officer was conducting a new "no left turn" enforcement. For the record, I didn't see ANY signs that said no left turn, it wasn't at all clear that you couldn't make a left turn. At the time that this happened, 2 vehicles ahead of me also made the same turn about a minute before I did, however the officer decided to pull me over. Okay, fine. I was polite and kindly asked the officer what I had been pulled over for, and the officer explained that they were doing a no left turn enforcement. I explained to the officer that I didn't see any sign that said no left turn and that I wasn't even from the area (I drove someone to a store near there as a favour). Regardless, I surrendered my license/reg/ins like they asked without any struggle and sure enough, the officer comes back with a ticket. While handing me the ticket, the officer said "I see you're not local to here and I see you have a clean driving, however I'm issuing you a ticket. Select option 3 on the back, give them my badge number and they'll get rid of it for you." So, in other words, I was given zero break whatsoever from the get-go. I received the court date in June, and requested disclosure about 2 weeks ago.
My questions are:
1. My first trial date is on Monday and they just notified me that my disclosure is ready today (Friday), there is no way I'm going to get there by the time they close as I live pretty far from where the court is. I'm going to end up receiving my disclosure on the day I attend court. Can I go into court and request that it be adjourned so that I may have enough time to properly prepare/consult with a paralegal or lawyer to examine my options? I DO NOT want to get muscled into going to trial.
2. How exactly should I go about doing this ^? (the officer will most likely be there).
3. Can I use the claim that the officer made ("Select option 3 on the back, give them my badge number and they'll get rid of it for you.") as a defense if I am muscled into court?
It's going to be up to the courts to decide. Usually it wouldn't be an issue and they'd just adjourn your trial to another date. Your problem is you received your Notice of Trial in June and you waited 2 weeks before your trial to request disclosure. You may very well have no issues or they are going to repeat to you what I just said. The officer isn't going to be involved at this stage. You can go about it much like you already have. Explain you're having trouble understanding what's going on that day and that you want to make an attempt at seeking representation so you don't make a plea out of confusion. They'll say it never happened and that will be the end of it.
driver300 wrote:
1. My first trial date is on Monday and they just notified me that my disclosure is ready today (Friday), there is no way I'm going to get there by the time they close as I live pretty far from where the court is. I'm going to end up receiving my disclosure on the day I attend court. Can I go into court and request that it be adjourned so that I may have enough time to properly prepare/consult with a paralegal or lawyer to examine my options? I DO NOT want to get muscled into going to trial.
It's going to be up to the courts to decide. Usually it wouldn't be an issue and they'd just adjourn your trial to another date. Your problem is you received your Notice of Trial in June and you waited 2 weeks before your trial to request disclosure. You may very well have no issues or they are going to repeat to you what I just said.
driver300 wrote:
2. How exactly should I go about doing this ^? (the officer will most likely be there).
The officer isn't going to be involved at this stage. You can go about it much like you already have. Explain you're having trouble understanding what's going on that day and that you want to make an attempt at seeking representation so you don't make a plea out of confusion.
driver300 wrote:
3. Can I use the claim that the officer made ("Select option 3 on the back, give them my badge number and they'll get rid of it for you.") as a defense if I am muscled into court?
They'll say it never happened and that will be the end of it.
Thanks Bend! You confirmed most of what I had thought. This is my first time in traffic court, ever. I have a squeaky clean record. I'm unsure what to do when I get to court though and I'm extremely nervous about it. I payed attention during law class in high-school, that's about my extent of how to handle a judge. What exactly do I do when I get there and most importantly WHEN during the trial do I give my request in order to get the best chance of having this adjournment granted? I know what I was thinking of saying, but I don't know when to say it???? I think something along the lines of "Your worship, given the fact that I just received the disclosure "x" minutes ago, this is my first appearance in court and I am not comfortable making a decision without consulting either a paralegal or lawyer, I respectfully ask that this trial be adjourned in order to allow me to properly defend myself." If they say no, I'm going to ask that it be noted that I made a request to have the case adjourned (and will bring that up to an appeal) if I'm muscled into a full trial right then and there. Any more help is GREATLY appreciated everyone, thanks so much thus far.
Thanks Bend! You confirmed most of what I had thought.
This is my first time in traffic court, ever. I have a squeaky clean record. I'm unsure what to do when I get to court though and I'm extremely nervous about it. I payed attention during law class in high-school, that's about my extent of how to handle a judge.
What exactly do I do when I get there and most importantly WHEN during the trial do I give my request in order to get the best chance of having this adjournment granted? I know what I was thinking of saying, but I don't know when to say it???? I think something along the lines of "Your worship, given the fact that I just received the disclosure "x" minutes ago, this is my first appearance in court and I am not comfortable making a decision without consulting either a paralegal or lawyer, I respectfully ask that this trial be adjourned in order to allow me to properly defend myself."
If they say no, I'm going to ask that it be noted that I made a request to have the case adjourned (and will bring that up to an appeal) if I'm muscled into a full trial right then and there.
Any more help is GREATLY appreciated everyone, thanks so much thus far.
Is it also possible for me to try to haggle this down to a municipal offence? I don't care if the ticket itself is more expensive, what I'm worried about is my record and long-term insurance premium rising, which I can't afford to pay. How would I go about this? Please let me know guys. My court date is tomorrow, so any help, as always, is much appreciated.
Is it also possible for me to try to haggle this down to a municipal offence? I don't care if the ticket itself is more expensive, what I'm worried about is my record and long-term insurance premium rising, which I can't afford to pay. How would I go about this? Please let me know guys. My court date is tomorrow, so any help, as always, is much appreciated.
Been doing research for my tickets and some say if the cop doesn't show up it can get thrown out. How long did it take for you from getting the ticket to get a trial date, disclosure etc?
driver300 wrote:
I'm going to try just getting it adjourned...any other tips?? It's tomorrow morning and I'm extremely anxious/nervous about it.
Been doing research for my tickets and some say if the cop doesn't show up it can get thrown out.
How long did it take for you from getting the ticket to get a trial date, disclosure etc?
if it's your first appearance, they'll give you an adjournment to review the disclosure without any problems; however, the prosecutor will make sure that it's on the record you requested for disclosure 2 weeks before your trial, and the provincial guidelines require them made at least a minimum of 8 weeks before the trial. the new adjournment (delay) will be your responsibility in terms of any 11b strategy from experience, the closest i've gotten to a municipal by-law plea deal was during a first attendance meeting in toronto (edward st); the prosecutor told me he didn't know of the by-law for my sign, said i should have brought a print-out of the by-law to him and he would've accepted it. at a speeding trial for +26kph in newmarket i brought the by-law for the speed limit which i got from the city and the prosecutor refused; told me that it wasn't fair for the other people who're pleading guilty to HTA offences; interestingly she offered the same speeding fine which the by-law would've imposed. it just goes to show that they're interested in getting HTA convictions not by-law
if it's your first appearance, they'll give you an adjournment to review the disclosure without any problems; however, the prosecutor will make sure that it's on the record you requested for disclosure 2 weeks before your trial, and the provincial guidelines require them made at least a minimum of 8 weeks before the trial.
the new adjournment (delay) will be your responsibility in terms of any 11b strategy
from experience, the closest i've gotten to a municipal by-law plea deal was during a first attendance meeting in toronto (edward st); the prosecutor told me he didn't know of the by-law for my sign, said i should have brought a print-out of the by-law to him and he would've accepted it.
at a speeding trial for +26kph in newmarket i brought the by-law for the speed limit which i got from the city and the prosecutor refused; told me that it wasn't fair for the other people who're pleading guilty to HTA offences; interestingly she offered the same speeding fine which the by-law would've imposed. it just goes to show that they're interested in getting HTA convictions not by-law
Emily - technically you're supposed to request disclosure way in advance (I didn't know about disclosure itself until prettymuch the day I requested it). What I've found is request disclosure as soon as you get your case, chances are it will be put in the back of the line, then if you still havent received it, you may call and ask about it's status. Record the name of the person who gives you any information. If you still do not receive disclosure, it's possible that you can use that as a defense in court. iFly55 - thank you! I'm not too worried about the 11b as I'd have had to wait at least 12-13 months for the trial to be conducted in order to successfully use that as a defense judging by most cases I've heard of. The adjournment is solely to get myself some extra time allotted to review the officer's notes and find any sort of error. Most likely, this will be handled by a paralegal in the end as I don't really want to take risks.
Emily - technically you're supposed to request disclosure way in advance (I didn't know about disclosure itself until prettymuch the day I requested it). What I've found is request disclosure as soon as you get your case, chances are it will be put in the back of the line, then if you still havent received it, you may call and ask about it's status. Record the name of the person who gives you any information. If you still do not receive disclosure, it's possible that you can use that as a defense in court.
iFly55 - thank you! I'm not too worried about the 11b as I'd have had to wait at least 12-13 months for the trial to be conducted in order to successfully use that as a defense judging by most cases I've heard of. The adjournment is solely to get myself some extra time allotted to review the officer's notes and find any sort of error. Most likely, this will be handled by a paralegal in the end as I don't really want to take risks.
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