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Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:19 am 
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I got a ticket today at the intersection of Bayview and Procter for disobeying a no right turn between 6AM and 9AM sign. I did not see the sign because of its funky placement way before the intersection. You can see the picture of the sign in Google maps:

(http://maps.google.com/maps?q=bayview+a ... M8ZcepCyGA)

I will definitely take this ticket to court since I do not want the 2 demerit points (the officer suggested that option himself which is ironic!). Also, I would like to keep my driver's record clean since the damn insurance companies make you pay a lot for even small tickets with no demerit points. Do I have any chance of pleading not guilty and defending myself successfully or should I take whatever offer the prosecutor through at me before the trial (i.e. reduced fine and demerit points). Any advice on what argument would work in court? Can I argue the placement of the sign is funky? I think the bilingual sign argument does not apply here since it is the Municipality of Markham.

Thanks in advance.


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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:25 am 
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I got the same ticket today, I didn't see the sign too! What did you decide? Are you going to court?


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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:28 pm 
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Is it my impression or the the lights and sign are a bit too far away from the intersection?

That's a good 20 meters there.

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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:14 pm 
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I've got a ticket at the same intersection (Bayview and Proctor) 2 weeks ago (apr 28) on a rainy day. In that morning more than 10 cars turned right on Proctor while I was waiting for the police officer. I agree the sign is far from the intersection. I am going to fight in court and bring some pics from the scene to explain how easily the sign could be missed. I will also get some pics from other intersections where the same kind of signs are very obvious and can't be missed.


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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Location: Ontario
When I click on the link in the first post, it appears that there's another sign posted about 75-100 prior to the intersection advising no turns as well. With two signs posted you might have a hard time arguing you couldn't read them.


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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 3:22 pm 
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Stanton wrote:
When I click on the link in the first post, it appears that there's another sign posted about 75-100 prior to the intersection advising no turns as well. With two signs posted you might have a hard time arguing you couldn't read them.


Yes, and there it is...

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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Yes, there is a sign but very far. If you decide to turn right after passing the sign as it’s happened to me, shouldn’t be a sign placed at the corner as you turn right and not beyond the intersection? I’ve taken some photos at other intersections where the signs are more visible in any weather condition. Would that help in court?

Here is an example:
Attachment:
Screen shot 2011-05-12 at 4.49.26 PM.png
Screen shot 2011-05-12 at 4.49.26 PM.png [ 91.95 KiB | Viewed 1361 times ]


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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Location: Ontario
I think you'd have a very hard time arguing that you ignored the first sign because you weren't planning on turning yet. The sign is posted at a perfect position since it warns you right before you merge into the turn lane. If it was an advance notice sign two intersections back you might have an argument, but the sign was still visible regardless of your intentions.

Edit: Photos of other intersections wouldn't be relevant in Court. The only issue is signage at the intersection where the offence took place.


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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:24 pm 
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It wasn’t my intention to argue, I asked for an opinion on this specific point to find out if it would help.
Thanks, I get it now.


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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2) - Municipality of Markham
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Location: Toronto
Best bet would be to look for a reduced charge in this case...

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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