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Stop Sign Fail To Stop No disclosure sent yet Pls help
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:53 pm
Posts: 5
Hello all, I need help.

I was charged with this on March 27, 2015 @ 12:07 p.m. I very rarely drive, but my mother had just returned from a doctor's appointment, and she was not feeling well enough to drive out for her prescriptions, so she asked me to drive her. I was driving, my brother was in the passenger seat and my mother in the back seat. I always follow the rules of the road, and have a clean driving record except for one speeding infraction about 16 years ago where I was speeding on a long weekend trying to get my mother to the hospital before her mother passed away.

Now, I know I stopped at the stop sign for the simple fact that there was a lady walking a really cute dog which had a full-on parka coat on. Not seeing anything like this before, I know we were stopped for a few seconds looking at the pooch before proceeding. There were no other cars at the intersection when we proceeded. Where did the officer come from? I continued to drive on, came to another stop sign and seems I stopped properly there too because he did not mention that stop. He stopped me about 1.5 km away from where I had allegedly not stopped.

I circled back to see if I could find the lady with the dog and ask her if she noticed that I had fully stopped, but she wasn't around. I then looked from every single direction of the four-way stop. There are wooden fences on each of the corner houses, and the only way for the officer to have seen me if I had not stopped, he would have had to been at the stop sign at the intersection. Even 5 feet away from the intersection, you cannot see the lines in the ground and there is no clear view due to the fence blocking the view.

Another thing, the stop sign should be visible from about 200 feet away, but the road bends and there is no way that it is visible from that distance. Maybe 90-100 feet away, but no more.

I received my Notice of Trial near the end of July. I sent in my request for disclosure August 31. I have not received anything. I called the number on the Notice of Trial about a week ago, they gave me a number to the Prosecutor's Office. No answer, so I left a message. No one called back. I called again this past Thursday. They gave me the same number, so I called again. After getting hung up on 3 times, finally someone answered. She looked for the file but could not find it. Left me on hold for 5 minutes and came back saying I had reached the wrong office. Finally got the correct number and got in contact late Thursday afternoon. Told me since I did not have a phone number on the request for disclosure they could not call me but should have received a letter. I never received anything else in the mail. Was told I could come pick it up or wait until the court date on December 1 @ 1:30 p.m. and the prosecutor would have it for me there.

What do I do? I want to go and pick it up tomorrow November 30th, so I can look it over before going to court. But, it is not enough time to really prepare.

Since I don't have insurance myself, and I was driving my mom to get her prescriptions filled, any conviction would go towards her upon insurance renewal, unless I manage to get a job and a car before the July renewal date. I am on Social assistance right now, and my mother is retired due to health. The fine will basically devastate us as that little assistance I receive is accounted for every month to keep food and shelter over our heads. She has been driving since the 70's and has never had a ticket/accident. To have her insurance affected because of this is unfair to her.

Please help me someone. I cannot afford to hire anyone to help. I have extremely high blood pressure and have been hospitalized because of it in the past. These past 9 months waiting for the December 1st court date has taken its toll on me.

Thank you to anyone who can help me out.


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Re: Stop Sign Fail To Stop No disclosure sent yet Pls help
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:53 pm
Posts: 5
Just an update:

I picked up the disclosure today, but there is absolutely nothing to help me defend myself.

It consists of a photocopy of the ticket itself and a piece of paper that states:

1. Officer Name / Platoon
2. Location of the Infraction
3. Charge / Fine Amount
4. my personal information
5. Vehicle License Plate #

And then there is an Additional Information Section that has the following:

Commercial Vehicle : N
CVQR : N
CVQR/NSC Number:
Code:
Motor Vehicle Involved : Y
Collision Involved : N
Witnesses : N
Memo Book Notes w/ Evidence : N
In-Car Video of Offence : N
Conversation Audio Only : Y
Related Ticket #'s :

How am I supposed to defend myself with this? Is this really all the disclosure I should have received?


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Re: Stop Sign Fail To Stop No disclosure sent yet Pls help
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
Posts: 812
If you did stop and your brother and mother can testify to that, it would likely cause enough doubt. It will be hard for the officer to be able to give much detail if they made no notes.

Also, this won't affect your mother's insurance. You were driving, not her.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: Stop Sign Fail To Stop No disclosure sent yet Pls help
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
If you and at least one of either your mother or brother will testify that you absolutely did stop then you should be able to get it dropped.

If it is only you that testifies against the officer testifying, then most likely they will believe the officer over you, but if you have at least one other person willing to testify the same as you then this should bring reasonable doubt to what the officer said and get you off..

Now as far as disclosure goes, this is the kind of notes that I would love to get for any ticket I got! There is no details at all about what the officer saw you do (or not do). So whatever the officer testifies is from memory and you can object to it... everytime the officer says something that was not in the disclosure/notes provided, simply say "I object as that information was not provided to me in disclosure." Say it loud and say it often!

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Stop Sign Fail To Stop No disclosure sent yet Pls help
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:53 pm
Posts: 5
Should I mention to the prosecutor that I have my two witnesses that will testify that I absolutely did stop when I check in with him/her? Will he/she at that point just give up or will it actually go through with the process where they will be called to the stand?


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Re: Stop Sign Fail To Stop No disclosure sent yet Pls help
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
Every prosecutor is different. Some will just totally not care about anything you say, and will just want to make you go thru the whole trial so they can try and beat you, whereas others will be totally understanding and may tell you they are going to drop the charge.

But either way, yes you should tell prosecutor you have your witnesses that will also testify that you did stop completely.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Stop Sign Fail To Stop No disclosure sent yet Pls help
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:53 pm
Posts: 5
Thank you for all the help, everyone!

Went to court, when I checked in, the Prosecutor didn't ask me how I was pleading, instead just telling me to have a seat. I was called last, and she stated to the Justice of the Peace that they were dropping the charges because there was not enough evidence to convict me. Police Officer was in court, too.


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Re: Stop Sign Fail To Stop No disclosure sent yet Pls help
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
Good news! Congratulations on the win.

The prosecutor probably reviewed the officers notes and realized that information was missing and decided to drop it.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Stop Sign Fail To Stop No disclosure sent yet Pls help
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:53 pm
Posts: 5
Thanks!

I can finally, after 8 long months, put my mind at ease and put this behind me. I cannot wait to tear up the ticket! :)


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