Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 9 posts ] 
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

HTA 144(18) RED LIGHT - FAILED TO STOP.
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:27 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:11 am
Posts: 3
Hello, i'm new to this site. i had only ticket for speeding in 2002. and tonight i got ticket failed to stop at red light. the weather conditions were bad, (after Snow-maggedon) road was so slushy (Victoria St. at Frederick St. Kitchener). the speed limit was 60 km/hr. and i drove by speed limit. light turns amber and as i was approaching it, i hit a break for a moment and decided to go thru intersection. then i realized it was late amber, i was insie the intersection looking at yellow light clearly turning red. and on my left side i saw police car, and i realized that he may come after me to warn me about it but not give me ticket. he said it's bad conditions i should drive according to road conditions and it's Christmas season, i should slow down. i told him it was by speed limit, and i used my personal judgement to go thru intersection since it was at 2 am saturday morning. i went to civil engineering program at college before i switched to mechanical, and on highway construction they make speed limits according to all weather conditions, road shape, how busy they are and how close to urban areas, etc. he told me that i could drive 40 km/hr since roads are bad. since there was no traffic i decided to go thru intersection, he said "how could other vehicle manage to stop" i said he was behind me and he had more distance and time to make stop. he gave me ticket, told me options and let me go.

i want to go to trial and face the justice. what are my chances of winning. i have clean record since December 2002.
help please
thank you

_________________
Mladen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:17 am 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:59 pm
Posts: 486
Location: Toronto
One of the biggest mistakes you can make at roadside is correcting the cop. You can say "yes" or you can say "no". Anymore than that and you are asking for a ticket.

Yes you can fight your ticket and yes you can win.

You were traveling at or below the speed limit which you thought was appropriate for the conditions. The light turned amber, you started to break but realized you wouldn't stop in time so you proceeded with caution. You were not speeding, you were not driving recklessly. You did what any prudent driver would do in that situation.

But if you get on the stand and say any of what you wrote above, you will be found guilty.

_________________
Fight Your Ticket!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:49 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
TC just about covered everything. Speed limit is, in theory, the maximum speed that you may travel at under ideal conditions. You know that's not how it's set, but that's what the "eyes of the law" more or less view it as. The only thing that is materially relevant to your defence is that you were driving at a speed that you felt was reasonable and proper at the time, given the road, traffic and weather conditions.

TC offered a good defence for you. Just to be clear... you did say you entered the intersection on an amber, right? Entering the intersection on a red is not permissible, but on an amber light, in the circumstances TC described, is allowable and justifiable. Would you say that applies to your particular case?

One caveat: Sometimes for this particular offence, the Crown Prosecutor will offer the "sweet deal" of giving you "fail to stop for an amber," which is the same number of demerit points, and fine, as failing to stop for a red. Yeah.

Also... friend of mine who had 10 years of policing experience (Ottawa Police) once told me this: "If I stop someone, I usually give them a warning unless it's something really serious. If they correct me or tell me I'm wrong, what would've been a warning turns into a ticket. If they try to make me feel stupid or start getting abusive, I'm going to dig and find everything I can ticket them for."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:44 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Just for future if the traffic signal has a cross walk control device, it always starts flashing about 10 seconds prior to the traffic light turning to amber. This also gives a prudent / defensive driver an additional "heads up" the light is going to change and more time to slow down or (for bookm) speed up! :D

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:15 am 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
Posts: 632
Location: Stratford, Ontario
- Request disclosure.
- At trial (after Crown finishes questioning officer and it's your turn to question him) ask, "Officer, what was the precise condition of the road surface I was presented with immediately before the intersection?"

You know he can't answer that because he was never on that exact portion of road. If he tries to claim that it was probably the same as the road HE was on, NAIL 'IM! "You don't know the conditions I was faced with do you?"

Then STOP! Don't get all technical.

I wouldn't take the stand in your own defense if I were you. I have a feeling a good prosecutor will get you to boast about how much more you know about speed limits than law enforcement ( the officer and the Crown will have talked), then you're doomed. I would say very little. In closing (closing statement), "I approached the light. When I braked, the antilocks activated and I new the road had an icy spot and I felt strongly that stopping in time would be impossible. Due to the abnormal road conditions, I felt it was prudent to continue through on the yellow light."

I would not comment on your speed at all. If you don't take the stand, the Crown can't ask you about it. Focus on the road conditions that YOU were faced with at that EXACT place. ONLY YOU COULD KNOW ABOUT IT.

Just my opinion though. Feel free to work out your own defense.

Good Luck
Sean

OH! And Toronto has the right answer to controlled intersections... A "count-down" on the pedestrian part of the signal. Then you can better gauge just how MUCH you need to speed up to make it!!! (Juuuuust kiddin'!!.. <TV cured me!! :P


Top
 Profile  
 
hello again
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:45 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:11 am
Posts: 3
Thank you all again for posts. it has been helpful, now i'm not sure yet if i'm going to go by myself to the trial, or take representative in Kitchener, Waterloo area. can i make the decision within 15 days and then later decide to take paralegal representative to defend me, notify the Crown and then let them do the work?
Question for Bookm member, do you do paralegal work or no? if yes, please leave me your number so i can call and talk about details. thanks.
And, what can i do if they find me guilty, can i reject their decision, and go to another trial and then choose someone to defend me?!
thanks

_________________
Mladen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:50 pm 
Offline
VIP
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 959
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Once you submit your ticket with a trial option, there will be delay of well more than 15 days. Usually the court does not take place for several months. You can get a paralegal at any time between that.

_________________
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: hello again
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:30 am 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
Posts: 632
Location: Stratford, Ontario
dugi wrote:
Question for Bookm member, do you do paralegal work?...


No, I get tickets.... er' um... USED TO get tickets ;)

I usually recommend defending yourself if there is no risk of an insurance increase. My company allows one minor ticket without consequence, so if my record is clear, I fight it myself. It's good to learn the process. Even a loss will better educate you for next time!

A paralegal will be MUCH more effective, but they'll cost over $400. Money well spent to keep a clean record.


Top
 Profile  
 
i agree
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:06 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:11 am
Posts: 3
yeah, you are right, i went to Pointts paralegal, they had season sale of $350 everything on court, and it will help me learn the system a bit, since i chose trial option. i have high hopes and chances of winning this ticket, since i have clean record. sometimes those idiots are so greedy for money, they will give you ticket for whatever and see if it works, they know if you chose to get representative, it works for all, money keeps coming in!! system is a rip off too!!

_________________
Mladen


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. HTA 144(18) RED LIGHT - FAILED TO STOP.

Hwang

1

751

Wed May 01, 2013 4:34 pm

tdottopcop View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Bank St & 1st Ave - Red light failed to stop 144(18)

bunsen

3

673

Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:00 pm

Simon Borys View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. RED LIGHT-FAIL TO STOP HTA 144(18)

atractiva

2

4249

Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:32 am

atractiva View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light - Fail to Stop HTA 144(18)

John Peters

2

2349

Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:57 pm

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. red light - fail to stop 144 (18) HTA

lipper

1

1364

Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:26 pm

iFly55 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light - Fail to stop HTA 144(18)

cloneman

1

1159

Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:58 am

bend View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Re: HTA 144(18) RED LIGHT - FAIL TO STOP

driver1

7

3059

Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:01 am

driver1 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. HTA 144(18) Red light - fail to stop (bicycle) - HELP!

ottawadude

4

1182

Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:21 am

racer View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red light fail to stop under section 144 (18) HTA

daggx

9

13417

Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:22 pm

viper1 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. HTA 144(18) RED LIGHT - FAIL TO STOP - Bicycle

historyfiend

14

606

Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:13 am

OTD Legal View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. HTA 144(18) - Fail to Stop at Red Light prior to right turn

kingcobrasnake

2

1437

Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:49 pm

kingcobrasnake View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Review of Disclosure HTA 144(18) Red Light Fail to Stop

QaahirStewart

6

814

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:22 pm

jsherk View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.