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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Do I Have chance of successful 11b? HTA 136 (1)(a)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:30 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
1. The offence number is 4860xxxxxxxA;
2. The date of the alleged offence is 2009/12/14;
3. The date set for trial is 2010/11/05;
4. The date the defendant requested complete disclosure is 2010/07/12;
5. The defendant received incomplete disclosure 2010/08/18;
6. The date the defendant requested complete disclosure is 2010/08/19;
7. The defendant did not receive disclosure until trial date 2010/11/05;
8. The defendant was told that there was no available trail date until 2011/06/02;
9. Another trial was set for 2011/06/02;
10. That the defendant has been prejudiced by the post charge delay in bringing this matter to hearing.


Ticket is for failure to stop a stop sign. When requested full disclosure I first only got officers notes. Officer had said there was video/audio recording when he first approached my car and I re-request disclosure with this evidence. Arrived at trail and prosecutor had DVD which they presented to me. The next available date was June 2nd. I think this is just shy of 18months.

Do I have grounds for stay of proceedings?
Should I request a earlier court hearing to show attempts?
Should I wait till 15 days before trail to file Form F4/11B?
If not when should I send this in?
How should this be delivered?
Is there any tips on how to fight the charge HTA 136(1)(a)?

Thanks for all the advice!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:24 pm 
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WOW I have to think about this.

Have you watched the dvd?(maybe put it on u-tube and let us see it)

Having said that 18 months should get you a stay.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:57 pm 
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Yes I have watched it and will try and get it posted. Not a standard format unfortunately. Any had luck converting these?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:00 am 
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redcaesar wrote:
Yes I have watched it and will try and get it posted. Not a standard format unfortunately. Any had luck converting these?


What format is it?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:07 am 
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Format is AV. The give you an AVPlayer and VLC won't Play it correctly. Tyring to convert it.

No luck yet. Tried uploading as is to youtube and it doesn't decode it correctly. can't see anything.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:32 pm 
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What if it is just under 18 months?

viper1 wrote:
WOW I have to think about this.

Have you watched the dvd?(maybe put it on u-tube and let us see it)

Having said that 18 months should get you a stay.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:40 pm 
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14 months is the last point where JPs will allow a trial to proceed, unless the defendant caused all (or part of) the delay to trial. Anywhere in the 11-14 month range is good enough for an 11B. If June is when they've got it scheduled, I'd try filing the stuff in early May. There's some generic advice about what to include and what to write in the 11B application out there. You'll also have to argue that you have been prejudiced before the JP.

A request for an earlier hearing is not required, but why not? It could, however, backfire, if your goal is an 11B.

If you don't have the time to run all over Toronto and serve notice to the Attorneys-General of Canada and Ontario, the JP, the Prosecutor, etc., or you're unfamiliar, you could talk to a paralegal about doing that for you.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:16 pm 
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Was it B court on Friday last week? I think I have seen you pleading your case with officer at the brake - Not much luck I guess? Consequences of new job I believe?

You should have remained in court to see what happened to the ONLY trial matter on the same charge that day (with your officer). Too bad you have to come back.


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Re: Do I Have chance of successful 11b? HTA 136 (1)(a)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:32 pm 
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No that wasn't me. I was not in Court room #B

So do I need a paralegal to submit for 11b/form4?

Another question where do I request for transcripts of my last court appearance to include in file. Is this the prosecutors office as well? Is there a specific form?

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Last edited by redcaesar on Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Do I Have chance of successful 11b? HTA 136 (1)(a)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:21 pm 
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I've posted the video in its original format. Just have to download unzip and run viewer. Only works in WinDohs.

http://www.noinfo.com/video.zip

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Re: Do I Have chance of successful 11b? HTA 136 (1)(a)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Getting all my documents together. I think I have it all figured out but still a bit confused....

Is a Form 16B needed to file 11B/Form 4?

Is this only used if you have someone else representing you or if your using couriers?

http://www.ontariocourtforms.on.ca/form ... B_1105.htm

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Re: Do I Have chance of successful 11b? HTA 136 (1)(a)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:41 pm 
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16B is not required if you serve everything personally. The stamps should serve as proof that you served the appropriate parties. However, if you are going to fax/mail the notices, you will have to get something SIMILAR to the 16B. You could also just write a simple affidavit stating that you served the Attorneys-General, and get that signed/stamped by a Commissioner of Oaths. Make sure you bring your fax receipts/mail proof of delivery. Serving the Prosecutor and filing with the court usually is best done in person, though.

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Re: Do I Have chance of successful 11b? HTA 136 (1)(a)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:41 am 
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Read my posts here (page 2): topic2808.html


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Re: Do I Have chance of successful 11b? HTA 136 (1)(a)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:16 pm 
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I went through the process about 20 days ago went to each office and delivered my stamped copies of my 11B. Tomorrow is my trail so I will give an update tomorrow on how it goes.

Any last minute tips? When talking to the prosecutor is it alright to hear the deal they offer before reminding them about the 11B? Can the be fallen back on if 11B doesn't go through?

I used the template found here : http://fightyourtickets.ca/tickets/appl ... oceedings/

Only thing off so far was that they tell you to go to 137 Edward Street before prosecutors office but apparently Edwards street needs to see the stamp from prosecutors office so I had to go there first then back to Edward St...

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Re: Do I Have chance of successful 11b? HTA 136 (1)(a)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:26 pm 
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OK went to court today and as usually waited to talk to prosecutor and she said she was withdrawing the charges because of my 11b motion had valid arguments and she would not contest it. I just had to sit through everyone else until they called me up to hear officially that charges are being withdrawn. Couldn't have gone better in my books!

I watch this prosecutor go through everyone and she did everything in her power not to go to trail. A lot of what I would consider strong arming some of the people to take deals. People that wanted to go to trail she would pretty much belittle them until they decided to take her deal. She did offer everyone a deal so this is a lesson that even if you don't want to take it to trial you should still fight your tickets because 90% of the time you will get a reduced charge and reduced fee. Any ticket you fight your throwing a monkey wrench into the big cash grab machine we call the police! Also the more tickets in the court system the harder it is for them manage (hence why they deal everything down to make things go quicker and they can get more people through). I talked to one of the officers and he said that he's in court 8-12 times a month on their days off! They are making overtime doing this on theirs days off plus all the costs for the judges, lawyers , clerks for a $110 ticket? The only reason they are still giving out so many tickets is because I bet 80% of the people just pay it which is huge income source for the police department.

Also of note, things that I did not see before was that the prosecutor actual withdrew a number of charges some because the police officer did not show but also a couple were withdrawn because there was not enough evidence and from what I could determine this was because there was no disclosure ordered? Is that possible?

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