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Fail to Stop; Amber light 144 (15)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:10 am 
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Unfortunately I'm back again.
This site helped out alot getting my ticket dropped last time.
Anyways, I got a Fail to Stop for amber light today. I totally don't agree with the charge!

I'll start out by saying there was a huge festival in my town where a big section of the main street is shut down for rides, concert and all that stuff. so the cop's have been out in full force all weekend.
Anyways i was travelling down the road following behind a suv. there's a tunnel that goes under the railway crossing that is only a single lane on my side of the road when you exit the tunnel you go about 15-20feet then it branches out to 3 lanes. A Left turning lane and 2 straight lanes. the intersection is less than 100m from the exit of the tunnel (around 75meters)
I followed the suv through the tunnel and had no view of the intersection till I switched into the left turn lane and there was a car in the center of the intersection waiting to turn left so i was rolling up to the car waiting for him to turn, but he hesitated when it was clear and didnt go till the light switched yellow and i was only about a car and a half from the stop line, i was goin to try to stop but i knew i would be way out blocking the cross walk so i just followed behind the car infront of me that waited so long to turn made my proper turn into my left hand lane didn't think twice about it it seemed like the most logical thing to do in the situation. the light was still yellow when i entered the intersection ... signalled and switched into the right hand lane then pulled in the timmies and was counting my change when the cop pulled in beside me , i didnt think anything of it because theres a store right there too that i always see them going to. so i just kept counting my change go to get my coffee and he was standing there
And he's like "you ran that red light back there" and my brother and I were like "the light was yellow" My info was alittle disorganized and i had said i was sorry " and he's like " yeah you'll be sorry its a 380 dollar fine and 6 points

He seemed pretty pissed off, im a laid back quiet guy, i didnt do anything to tick him off , I was mostly just in shock he was accusing me of running a red light
after he was sitting in his car for a few minutes i went over and had asked if he could just give me a warning , cuz i have a clean driving record i've never had a warning for speeding or anything.

And he yelled at me "NO DON'T EVEN ASK ME THAT RYAN "(which is my middle name lol)
he literally yelled!! lol the few things i said in noway should have angered him, obviously he was having a bad day

He already had the ticket wrote up he ended up giving me the fail to stop for amber light

which seems like it should be a pretty easy one to beat , i have to see in the disclosure cuz i dont even know where he was, i just know it wasnt behind me cuz my left rear signal was burnt out :S lol and nothing was said

worse case i'll get then to drop it to fail to obey lane lights with no points
what do you guys think?

do you think it would be a bad idea to ask why he felt he needed to raise his voice at me when i asked if he could just give me a warning, to show he was in a bad mood if this goes to trial which i plan on doing.

any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!! thanks guys!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:20 pm 
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Issues like the officer's attitude are best raised with their supervisors, not with the crown, unless they are relevant to the facts in issue or were so severe as to constitute a breach of some charter right.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Wait, $380 fine? Did he write that in the total payable and/or set fine box?

He charged you with failing to stop for an amber light. There are a couple of ways to fight this. Basically, he initially accused you of running a red. If he testifies to that in court, you can make a motion of non-suit. Running a red light is not included in the offence of failing to stop for an amber under 144 (15) of the HTA.

If not, you could testify that you were travelling with the flow of the traffic, you observed the amber light and, based upon your experience with your vehicle, the road conditions, etc., it would not have been reasonably possible nor safe to stop the vehicle and remain clear of the intersection. (It's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:00 am 
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Radar Identified wrote:
Wait, $380 fine? Did he write that in the total payable and/or set fine box?

He charged you with failing to stop for an amber light. There are a couple of ways to fight this. Basically, he initially accused you of running a red. If he testifies to that in court, you can make a motion of non-suit. Running a red light is not included in the offence of failing to stop for an amber under 144 (15) of the HTA.

If not, you could testify that you were travelling with the flow of the traffic, you observed the amber light and, based upon your experience with your vehicle, the road conditions, etc., it would not have been reasonably possible nor safe to stop the vehicle and remain clear of the intersection. (It's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.)


I wish he had put 380 as the fine, he filled it in correctly.

about the red light thing, thats one thing that worried me. It definitely wasn't red! but he was accusing me of that at first he even wrote "Re" then scratched it out and initialed it where it says amber light.
i didnt know how it would turn out if he started goin on about that

the sad thing is thats what actually happened, i don't drive like an idiot, I did the best thing for that situation


thanks for the advice guys .I just wanted to make sure I understood it all correctly, and i wasnt out to lunch thinking i have a defense


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:00 am 
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i didnt expect the car would wait so long to turn i was planning on stopping behind him, then the light changed yellow when i was maybe a car length from the stop line, i would have had to jam my brakes on and would have been blocking the cross walk. my tires are squawky so it would have made a noise

here's a few pics from google maps.

this one show's the view when you exit the tunnel

Image

this one shows the left turning lane, the red mark is where the back of the other car was, i was expecting to atleast stop up there when the light changed theres no way i could have stopped back at the stop line.

Image


this last pic shows the view from across the street, to show the size of the intersection


Image



The dumbest thing is on the other side of that tunnel is where i had my accident and they tried giving me a careless lol

the only 2 tickets i've ever gotten we're 200 meters apart and both times i was just trying to get my morning timmies :(


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Re: Fail to Stop; Amber light 144 (15)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:58 pm 
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Okay guy's its getting close! Im kind of nervous, I can't decide if i should try to fight it or plea to a lessor charge, I have my Resolution meeting one week from today!!!!!!. and court on the 12th.
I got my disclosure
in the cops notes he says

"Vehicle was observed by police driving N/B first ave
--Vehicle made a left turn onto Talbot St. crossing the stop line while the traffic light was amber and having had very reasonable time to have stopped safely for the light channel.
---The traffic light turned red as the vehicle entered the intersection.
The vehicle was stopped by police (he didn't stop me, I pulled in the timmy's he pulled in a couple minutes later no lights on and approached me when i was walkin to get my coffee)
the driver was advised of reason for stop


What would you guys recommend I do, fight it or take a plea????
My brother was in the car with me so I will have a witness, he doesnt mention the car infront of me hesitating at the lights, he makes it out like it was just me and an open road!

any help would be GREATLY appreciated


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Re: Fail to Stop; Amber light 144 (15)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:27 am 
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BUMP! I could really use some advice guys!


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Re: Fail to Stop; Amber light 144 (15)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Basically it comes down to the officer's observation that there was "reasonable time" and your version, that there was not. If you take it to trial the prosecutor will have to draw out some more details from the officer's evidence than his opinion that you had reasonable time. Usually this involves things like distance from the stop line when the light turned from green to amber, position when it turned from amber to red, road conditions, traffic, etc. If the officer has no notes on this it may be difficult for the prosecutor to get the necessary evidence in. It would also be helpful to have a careful cross examination of the officer on his lack of notes and/or recollection of why exactly he claims you had reasonable time.

Of course in the end the JP will examine all the evidence, including the 2 competing versions, and weigh them in his judgment. How it ends up depends on how it comes out in court, which is why no one here can really give you a good guess on that.

As to pleaing, that's really up to you, taking into account things like whether you feel you are guilty or innocent, how much time/money you can afford to put into this, the viability of any defences, etc. Again, hard to say since a lot of that is particular to you.

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Re: Fail to Stop; Amber light 144 (15)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:28 pm 
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Im hoping his memory will be pretty vague, he was in a rush to go to a fire at house where someone got murdered right by my house so im hoping he doesnt remember much about a amber light ticket he gave before

he didn't note his location, I had found an old case where the guy had won a red light case because the officer wasnt facing the same light as the person so they ruled there would be a delay in his judgement


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Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:18 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Radar Identified wrote:
Wait, $380 fine? Did he write that in the total payable and/or set fine box?

sounds about right if designated as a community safety zone

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