Hey, I've chosen to fight the ticket that I was given. I was given a ticket for running a red light. The only thing is, I entered while it was yellow. Here is the situation. I was making a left hand turn onto a road. I was going at about 50 Km/hour. As I was approaching the green light it turned to amber, in my opinion, with the rate of speed I was going, I could not have stopped safely. I entered the intersection on a Amber. I was I would say 15 feet from the stop line when it turned Amber. I was able to see the light turn red JUST as I was going under it. To give some history to this, I was at a grocery store, and it was closing time, so there were no cars in the parking lot. I drove across the parking lot, and turned right onto the road. Later I found that that was when the police officer first saw me. It was obvious that he didn't like this so I feel he had it out for me and this gave him an excuse to pull me over. Here are my notes from that night: January 30th 2010 My wife and I left Food Basics at approximately 8:15pm. The parking lot was completely empty. We cut across the parking lot to the exit. I signalled that I was turning right, slowed down to look down the walkway, and then proceeded onto the roadway where I made and immediate left. I continued down the road and turned right again onto Metcalfe St. I then was faced with a green light and continued through the intersection. One block later I came to another light. This one turned amber a little bit before I came to the stop line. I proceeded to clear the intersection as I could not have stopped safely without skidding. I then was pulled over by Officer X. He asked me 'Was that closed' I wasn't sure what he was talking about, whether it be was the amber light close, or if my trunk was closed? Because we had just put groceries in the trunk and wondered if the trunk had closed. I asked him what he meant and he said 'You're trunk is open, do you want it closed.' I said yes. The other officer attempted to close the trunk after looking in the back with his flashlight. The other officer proceeded to look in the back seat with his flashlight. Officer X asked me why I ran that light. I answered 'just stupidity' Officer X chuckled a bit and said 'well at least you're honest.' Then he asked if I had anything to drink tonight. I said no nothing at all. He asked if I had any alcohol in the car, I said no sir. Then he asked me for my license registration and proof of insurance. I gave it to him and he looked at my registration, insurance and handed it back to me. He left and went back to the car at 8:28pm with my license. At 8:33pm he returned with a ticket in his hand. He asked again "Why were you in such a hurry, where do you need to be?" I said I didn't have anywhere to be. And then he said that he saw me going across the parking lot in Food Basics and that I must have went down Colborne, because he was sitting at the first light and said 'there's that car' and pulled in behind me. He just handed me the ticket, he didn't explain anything to me at all or what I was being ticketed for. He handed me my license and the ticket and said drive safely, and I said 'Thanks'. I then turned to my wife and said, 'Did I just say thank you for a ticket? I drove off, and after getting off the main road I pulled over to look at the ticket. I saw that it was for running a red light. I believe that Officer X should have at least explained to me what the ticket was for, and the three options. My question is, what can I use to fight my case. I mean, I know that I entered in on an amber light, but how do I PROVE it? What is the procedure that the trial will go? How do I cross examine a police officer? **note** officer name is not appropriate for forum and has been edited out with an "X" by forum moderator HB
Topic
144(8) I got a ticket for running a red... on an amber?
Hey sorry to stray away from your 'white' defense. I have just read another person's forum where they mention that they have recieved a fine of $325... 260 for the fine, 60 for the victims surcharge, and 5 for the court costs. I asked if this was an error on his ticket and Radar Identified mentioned that IS correct. That is the set fine for all of Ontario. Here is the link to the set fines. http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/ocj/en/s ... /index.htm On my ticket it is written a 250 fine, with a 50 victims surcharge, and says total payable is 300.00. THIS IS AN ERROR Here is a previous court case where the same thing has happened and they have determined that it is a fatal error and must be quashed. http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/decision ... CA0429.htm I quote... "(b) where the certificate of offence is not complete and regular on its face, the justice shall quash the proceeding." Is this my 100% win? Please advise me on where I should go from here?! Oh I'm excited now!
Hey sorry to stray away from your 'white' defense. I have just read another person's forum where they mention that they have recieved a fine of $325... 260 for the fine, 60 for the victims surcharge, and 5 for the court costs. I asked if this was an error on his ticket and Radar Identified mentioned that IS correct. That is the set fine for all of Ontario. Here is the link to the set fines.
It is, indeed, a fatal error! There are a couple of ways to proceed here. One is to simply not show up for trial. The JP must then examine the ticket, as you have "defaulted," so to speak. If there are any fatal errors, he's supposed to quash it without you present. If he doesn't quash it, you can then appeal. (Could be a bit complicated but others have done it.) If you show up for trial, they can amend the ticket and correct the fine. There may be other options to simplify the process. You should, however, be able to win this, even if it does require a bit of wrangling. There's lots of case law supporting this. The Ontario Court of Appeal was quite clear in the London v. Young ruling (applies here), which has been discussed quite a bit on this forum.
It is, indeed, a fatal error! There are a couple of ways to proceed here. One is to simply not show up for trial. The JP must then examine the ticket, as you have "defaulted," so to speak. If there are any fatal errors, he's supposed to quash it without you present. If he doesn't quash it, you can then appeal. (Could be a bit complicated but others have done it.)
If you show up for trial, they can amend the ticket and correct the fine.
There may be other options to simplify the process. You should, however, be able to win this, even if it does require a bit of wrangling. There's lots of case law supporting this. The Ontario Court of Appeal was quite clear in the London v. Young ruling (applies here), which has been discussed quite a bit on this forum.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
I would also like to point out the obvious: This thread has endurance... So far we've covered: - R. v. W(D) - London v. Young - R. v. Sandhu - R. v. Nikolovski - R. v. Tran - R. v. McGibbon :shock: :shock: Just following up on something I hadn't yet responded to: I'm sure they are. Some are more helpful than others, from what I've seen, too.
I would also like to point out the obvious: This thread has endurance... So far we've covered:
- R. v. W(D)
- London v. Young
- R. v. Sandhu
- R. v. Nikolovski
- R. v. Tran
- R. v. McGibbon
Just following up on something I hadn't yet responded to:
Biron wrote:
I must also say the many JPs, if not most of them, are educated and very well versed in law.
I'm sure they are. Some are more helpful than others, from what I've seen, too.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
"I would also like to point out the obvious: This thread has endurance... So far we've covered: " Yes we have covered alot and I am VERY thankful to everyone that has passed along their knowledge and experience. I'm very appreciative. You guys rock!
"I would also like to point out the obvious: This thread has endurance... So far we've covered: "
Yes we have covered alot and I am VERY thankful to everyone that has passed along their knowledge and experience. I'm very appreciative. You guys rock!
All right everyone! First of all I'd like to thank everyone who helped me out with any questions that I had regarding this case. I'd like to send a special thank you out to Biron and Radar Identified, you guys were an EXTREME help! Thank you! I spent ALOT of time preparing for this court date, and through research found that the fine was incorrect. For those of you that don't know why this is important, basically you have 1 option at this point, if you want it to be quashed. That is to NOT show up for court, the JP will them examine the ticket and see if it is 'regular on face'. Meaning everything is correct. If the fine is incorrect, and the JP notices, according to case law, they must quash the ticket. If you were to show up, they can just ammend it as it isn't a pertinant part of the case, but without you present they cannot. If you don't show up, and they don't notice the error and convict you, you can appeal it. SO! That is what happened in my case on the 19th! I didn't show up for court. I called today to find out about my court date. They asked for my Driver's License and said 'you failed to appear?' I said 'absolutely' and he said 'the case was quashed, cancelled' I said 'because of the wrong set fine?' he said 'I don't know they didn't say all I know is it was quashed.' AWESOME! Case closed, DONE!
All right everyone!
First of all I'd like to thank everyone who helped me out with any questions that I had regarding this case. I'd like to send a special thank you out to Biron and Radar Identified, you guys were an EXTREME help! Thank you!
I spent ALOT of time preparing for this court date, and through research found that the fine was incorrect. For those of you that don't know why this is important, basically you have 1 option at this point, if you want it to be quashed. That is to NOT show up for court, the JP will them examine the ticket and see if it is 'regular on face'. Meaning everything is correct. If the fine is incorrect, and the JP notices, according to case law, they must quash the ticket. If you were to show up, they can just ammend it as it isn't a pertinant part of the case, but without you present they cannot. If you don't show up, and they don't notice the error and convict you, you can appeal it.
SO! That is what happened in my case on the 19th! I didn't show up for court. I called today to find out about my court date. They asked for my Driver's License and said 'you failed to appear?' I said 'absolutely' and he said 'the case was quashed, cancelled' I said 'because of the wrong set fine?' he said 'I don't know they didn't say all I know is it was quashed.' AWESOME! Case closed, DONE!
I searched but could not retrieve a satisfactory answer.
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