Today I received a $320 ticket for failing to stop at a red light. I was driving on the highway, the light turned yellow and I didn't slow down in time. I did slow down and come to a complete stop, I was partially in the intersection and couldn't back up due to other vehicles behind me so I carefully proceeded through as to not block traffic going through the lights; assuming the OPP officer caught this on his dash cam his video would reflect that I did come to a complete stop. Could this help my defense? And is it possible to use the defense of due diligence on a failure to stop at a red light? I had a clean driving record up until today. Clearly the slowing down and coming to a complete stop should prove that mens rea was not present and I didn't enter the intersection with the intention of going through the red light. How can I fight this ticket? Is it even worth fighting or should I just pay the $320 and be happy I didn't get charged the maximum $1000.
Today I received a $320 ticket for failing to stop at a red light.
I was driving on the highway, the light turned yellow and I didn't slow down in time. I did slow down and come to a complete stop, I was partially in the intersection and couldn't back up due to other vehicles behind me so I carefully proceeded through as to not block traffic going through the lights; assuming the OPP officer caught this on his dash cam his video would reflect that I did come to a complete stop.
Could this help my defense? And is it possible to use the defense of due diligence on a failure to stop at a red light? I had a clean driving record up until today.
Clearly the slowing down and coming to a complete stop should prove that mens rea was not present and I didn't enter the intersection with the intention of going through the red light. How can I fight this ticket? Is it even worth fighting or should I just pay the $320 and be happy I didn't get charged the maximum $1000.
Did you receive a ticket in the mail or was it hand delivered by an officer? Plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you can request disclosure (officers notes, make model serial numbers of all equipment involved, any pics video audio, any witess statements). Once you get that info post it here.
Did you receive a ticket in the mail or was it hand delivered by an officer?
Plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you can request disclosure (officers notes, make model serial numbers of all equipment involved, any pics video audio, any witess statements). Once you get that info post it here.
Failing to stop for a red light is an absolute liability offense. That means you either stopped for the red light or you didn't. That will be the basis of your trial. Either one or the other. Keep that in mind as you progress.
Failing to stop for a red light is an absolute liability offense. That means you either stopped for the red light or you didn't. That will be the basis of your trial. Either one or the other.
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you. For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you.
For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area. In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down?
Zatota wrote:
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you.
For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area.
In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down?
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area. In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down? I would pick option 3 and plead not guilty and then request disclosure, this keeps all your options open. If you decide after looking at the disclosure that you want to cut a deal for a reduction you can always do that the day of your trial. Also I think there maybe a fatal error on your ticket because of the incorrect fine amount. There has been some new recent case law on the subject so I'm hoping some others will chime in on that subject, but if that is still a fatal error then you may be able to get the ticket tossed.
AlphaDog wrote:
Zatota wrote:
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you.
For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area.
In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down?
I would pick option 3 and plead not guilty and then request disclosure, this keeps all your options open. If you decide after looking at the disclosure that you want to cut a deal for a reduction you can always do that the day of your trial. Also I think there maybe a fatal error on your ticket because of the incorrect fine amount. There has been some new recent case law on the subject so I'm hoping some others will chime in on that subject, but if that is still a fatal error then you may be able to get the ticket tossed.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area. In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down? I would pick option 3 and plead not guilty and then request disclosure, this keeps all your options open. If you decide after looking at the disclosure that you want to cut a deal for a reduction you can always do that the day of your trial. Also I think there maybe a fatal error on your ticket because of the incorrect fine amount. There has been some new recent case law on the subject so I'm hoping some others will chime in on that subject, but if that is still a fatal error then you may be able to get the ticket tossed. How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
daggx wrote:
AlphaDog wrote:
Zatota wrote:
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you.
For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area.
In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down?
I would pick option 3 and plead not guilty and then request disclosure, this keeps all your options open. If you decide after looking at the disclosure that you want to cut a deal for a reduction you can always do that the day of your trial. Also I think there maybe a fatal error on your ticket because of the incorrect fine amount. There has been some new recent case law on the subject so I'm hoping some others will chime in on that subject, but if that is still a fatal error then you may be able to get the ticket tossed.
How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website: http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do- ... hedule-43/ Then you have to add in the victim surcharge which is listed here: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/000161 Then on top of that there should be a $5 court fee listed here in the table of costs: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900945 So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325.
AlphaDog wrote:
How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website:
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website: http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do- ... hedule-43/ Then you have to add in the victim surcharge which is listed here: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/000161 Then on top of that there should be a $5 court fee listed here in the table of costs: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900945 So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325. I read in another thread that I have to let the ticket default for the ticket to be quashed because if I bring it to court the justice will just fix the error? He said that the ticket needs to default and if the justice notices the error they will quash it, and if they don't catch the error I would have to appeal it. Any truth to this?
daggx wrote:
AlphaDog wrote:
How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website:
So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325.
I read in another thread that I have to let the ticket default for the ticket to be quashed because if I bring it to court the justice will just fix the error? He said that the ticket needs to default and if the justice notices the error they will quash it, and if they don't catch the error I would have to appeal it. Any truth to this?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website: http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do- ... hedule-43/ Then you have to add in the victim surcharge which is listed here: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/000161 Then on top of that there should be a $5 court fee listed here in the table of costs: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900945 So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325. I read in another thread that I have to let the ticket default for the ticket to be quashed because if I bring it to court the justice will just fix the error? He said that the ticket needs to default and if the justice notices the error they will quash it, and if they don't catch the error I would have to appeal it. Any truth to this? And would the $5 court fee still be on a ticket given directly by a police officer at the scene?
AlphaDog wrote:
daggx wrote:
AlphaDog wrote:
How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website:
So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325.
I read in another thread that I have to let the ticket default for the ticket to be quashed because if I bring it to court the justice will just fix the error? He said that the ticket needs to default and if the justice notices the error they will quash it, and if they don't catch the error I would have to appeal it. Any truth to this?
And would the $5 court fee still be on a ticket given directly by a police officer at the scene?
Back story: got a fail to stop at red light ticket, set fine $260, total payable $320. Was told in my previous thread that this was incorrect, it should be $325, it appears the court fee is missing. So my questions: 1) will there be a court fee in the ticket even if it is presented by the police officer at the scene? 2) should I just not respond to the ticket, let it default and then appeal it? 3) does anyone have any experience with doing this? Thanks!
Back story: got a fail to stop at red light ticket, set fine $260, total payable $320. Was told in my previous thread that this was incorrect, it should be $325, it appears the court fee is missing.
So my questions:
1) will there be a court fee in the ticket even if it is presented by the police officer at the scene?
2) should I just not respond to the ticket, let it default and then appeal it?
3) does anyone have any experience with doing this?
1) Every ticket has a $5 court fee included in the total payable. Even if you just plea guilty and pay it, the court still processes it. 2) That is the strategy with these types of fatal errors. Although there is some new case law which could affect it, I think the fine amounts being wrong are still considered fatal errors. 3) There have been many threads on the forum, just search fatal error.
1) Every ticket has a $5 court fee included in the total payable. Even if you just plea guilty and pay it, the court still processes it.
2) That is the strategy with these types of fatal errors. Although there is some new case law which could affect it, I think the fine amounts being wrong are still considered fatal errors.
3) There have been many threads on the forum, just search fatal error.
Here is the recent case about ticket errors: courts-and-procedure/cops-can-fix-small ... t7933.html In my opinion, an incorrect set fine amount would be considered minor and it is not prejudicial towards the defendant in preparing a full answer and defence to the charge. With the new case, the police officer can correct the set fine amount on the certificate of offence (his copy of the ticket) and still submit it validly to the courthouse. This means if you do not respond, you will be found guilty. Upon appeal, you will need to be able to argue how an incorrect set fine amount is prejudicial towards your ability to make a full answer and defence - this will be difficult.
In my opinion, an incorrect set fine amount would be considered minor and it is not prejudicial towards the defendant in preparing a full answer and defence to the charge.
With the new case, the police officer can correct the set fine amount on the certificate of offence (his copy of the ticket) and still submit it validly to the courthouse. This means if you do not respond, you will be found guilty. Upon appeal, you will need to be able to argue how an incorrect set fine amount is prejudicial towards your ability to make a full answer and defence - this will be difficult.
The best course of action in this case might be to file for a court date and request disclosure including a copy of the certificate of offence the officer submitted to the court. If the copy that was submitted to the court has the same error as your copy then you can skip your court date and force a default hearing. If the officer fixed the problem on the copy he submitted to the court then we can still go over the disclosure and look for another avenue of defence.
The best course of action in this case might be to file for a court date and request disclosure including a copy of the certificate of offence the officer submitted to the court. If the copy that was submitted to the court has the same error as your copy then you can skip your court date and force a default hearing. If the officer fixed the problem on the copy he submitted to the court then we can still go over the disclosure and look for another avenue of defence.
Jsherk I took your words to heart about asking for disclosure and i am attempting to use your template for asking for all the things you ask for. I went into court today in response to my Notice Of Constitutional Question and was stripped down by the judge saying to me, " You are using the Notice Of Constitutional Question wrong. It's a very complicated area and is used for questioning the law. What you want is to execute a Charter Challenge. But I can tell you now, you're probably not going to get what you're asking for. If you're still going to do a Charter Challenge, you're going to need case law. But, everything you're trying has been done before and I don't think you're going get anything special here." So, I guess I'm asking if you have any proof that your template for getting disclose has worked. I'm hopeful that what you have wrote down here is coming from a place of experience and not speculation. I'm getting the feeling that things like requesting Industry Canada certifications are just going to be laughed out of court. Can you instill some confidence in this process of defense? Thank you.
Jsherk
I took your words to heart about asking for disclosure and i am attempting to use your template for asking for all the things you ask for. I went into court today in response to my Notice Of Constitutional Question and was stripped down by the judge saying to me, " You are using the Notice Of Constitutional Question wrong. It's a very complicated area and is used for questioning the law. What you want is to execute a Charter Challenge. But I can tell you now, you're probably not going to get what you're asking for. If you're still going to do a Charter Challenge, you're going to need case law. But, everything you're trying has been done before and I don't think you're going get anything special here."
So, I guess I'm asking if you have any proof that your template for getting disclose has worked. I'm hopeful that what you have wrote down here is coming from a place of experience and not speculation. I'm getting the feeling that things like requesting Industry Canada certifications are just going to be laughed out of court.
Can you instill some confidence in this process of defense?
Jsherk I took your words to heart about asking for disclosure and i am attempting to use your template for asking for all the things you ask for. I went into court today in response to my Notice Of Constitutional Question and was stripped down by the judge saying to me, " You are using the Notice Of Constitutional Question wrong. It's a very complicated area and is used for questioning the law. What you want is to execute a Charter Challenge. But I can tell you now, you're probably not going to get what you're asking for. If you're still going to do a Charter Challenge, you're going to need case law. But, everything you're trying has been done before and I don't think you're going get anything special here." So, I guess I'm asking if you have any proof that your template for getting disclose has worked. I'm hopeful that what you have wrote down here is coming from a place of experience and not speculation. I'm getting the feeling that things like requesting Industry Canada certifications are just going to be laughed out of court. Can you instill some confidence in this process of defense? Thank you.
Jsherk
I took your words to heart about asking for disclosure and i am attempting to use your template for asking for all the things you ask for. I went into court today in response to my Notice Of Constitutional Question and was stripped down by the judge saying to me, " You are using the Notice Of Constitutional Question wrong. It's a very complicated area and is used for questioning the law. What you want is to execute a Charter Challenge. But I can tell you now, you're probably not going to get what you're asking for. If you're still going to do a Charter Challenge, you're going to need case law. But, everything you're trying has been done before and I don't think you're going get anything special here."
So, I guess I'm asking if you have any proof that your template for getting disclose has worked. I'm hopeful that what you have wrote down here is coming from a place of experience and not speculation. I'm getting the feeling that things like requesting Industry Canada certifications are just going to be laughed out of court.
Can you instill some confidence in this process of defense?
Hi, I am new to the forum. I have been trying to get information off of here and www.ticketcombat.com for my case.
I was given a ticket for going 122km/h in a posted 100km/h zone at Hwy 401 east at Thickson Rd in Whitby ON on April 10th, 2009.
I find this absolutely absurd, since I was in the left most lane of the 401 approximately(within 5km/h) following the speed of traffic in my lane. The guy in…
Hey this is my first ticket so as much information that people can provide will be appreciated. I was making the drive home going around 90kph(in a 80) behind what I knew was an undercover police car. The cop abruptly pulled to the side and pulled back in behind me to pull me over. Now I reduced my speed to below 80 when the cop pulled to the side but he claimed he had me clocked at 109kph and…
On Wednesday I attended court at 1530 Markham Road, courtroom E2, in order to fight my speeding ticket. My original plan was to plead not guilty, and to watch all the people who went before me, the process, the Prosecutor and the Justice Of The Peace so I could strategize and form the best plan for my defence at trial. I had done some research online and sort of knew I wanted to defend myself,…
About 5 months ago I was driving along a two-way road approaching an intersection. The road had a left/ straight turning lane and a right turning lane. There was an 18 wheel gravel truck occupying the left lane at a red light. I pulled behind the truck intending to drive straight. After not moving for about 1 second, I check my rear view mirror, signaled and changed lanes to the right…
I am currently working for an auto parts delivery company and they contracted me to work as a courier.
As I left my base to make my first delivery which was less than 300 meters away from the shop, I had my seat belt off because i was under the impression, according to Section 106 Exception #6 subsection (c) of the highway traffic act, that I would be exempted from the seat belt law. The rule…
Got a ticket yesterday for "Insecure Load" contrary to HTA Sec 111(2). $160. I was pulling a utility trailer in which I had loaded a steel and wood cabinet. Total length of cabinet is 57.5". 14.75" (1/4 of the cabinet) was sticking out over the side of the trailer at about a 45 degree angle, the rest (3/4) was inside the trailer. The trailer has sides 24" high. I didn't have a tie-down or bungee…
I've been researching for months for defence strategy and basic trial information regarding my speeding ticket. However, the information is so conflicting that I have no confidence whatsoever that I know what I'm doing.
I didn't get this info from a friend of a friend, it came from this website, court officials, case laws, and a consultation with a traffic ticket fighting company.
So I was driving east bound pulling an empty tandem trailer on a gravel highway. Eventually I caught up to a truck pulling a fifth wheel. The speed limit was 70km/h and I don't quite remember but I'm almost 100% that the guy in front of me was driving at 60km/h. After being behind him for a few kilometers and getting two cracks in my windshield from rocks off his tires, I decided to pass him. I…
I have been driving for over 10 years without any tickets and accidents what so ever. Unfortunately my luck ran out this past Friday; when the officer pulled me over doing 80 in a 50 zone in Mississauga, Ontario. Officer was very friendly and polite not to mention nice enough to reduce the charge to 15KM.
On the speeding ticket it now says doing 65km in a 50 zone. Never having a speeding…
hi everyone im just wondering if its right for a cop to have my car impounded and give me a traffic ticket for improper plates when my car didnt leave my property, yes i knew the plates werent to my car but on private property it dont matter aslong as it dosent go onto public property. am i right with this that i shouldnt have gotten the ticket or my car impounded?????????????
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
Hi guys, I got pulled over last night and was ticketed with HTA 172, I was going 157 on a 100 on 400N and was wondering what I should do. I was using cruise control but the guy in the lane to my left was driving into my lane irresponsibly to I sped up to get ahead of him and just my luck that's when an OPP cruiser pulled up behind me flashing his lights. My court date is at the end of the month…
If anyone can answer this I would greatly appreciate it.
Friday morning I checked my mail and received a letter from the MTO stating that under section 47(1) of the HTA the Registrar of Motor Vehicles has decided to suspend my driving privilege for medical reasons. This was due to a report submitted by a physician in compliance with section 203 of the HTA. Enclosed with that letter were forms to…
Ok so looking for some advice in regards to my wife's speeding ticket 120k in 100 (I was in vehicle so witnessed most - but was resting at initial clock.)
whats the likelihood of positive outcome of an 11b (or an officer no show, which I suspect doesn't really happen as much as web/Ads would have you believe) of 8months.
Wife REALLY doesn't want to go, and of course I'm the one doing all of the…
I know I shouldn't have driving but I slept at my buddies' place and I thought I was ok to drive in the morning.. needless to say I still drove and got pulled over.
Background details:
I was pulled over in the morning last week, apparently going 120 km/hr on 90km Northbound DVP. Two cop cars tailed me for a bit, saw them in my rearview mirror while on the left lane, slowed down to…
I got two tickets on Feb 20 2011. One for red light, and the other for Stop sign. I knew I had a good chance at getting off on the red light, because the officer couldn't actually see the light facing me. He was at an opposite angle, further up the street.
I set a court date for both tickets. On April 22 I moved to a new place. I went to the Service Ontario location and renewed my licence…
Winnipeg's police officers have been told to issue more traffic tickets, in part to increase revenue.
And a union representing cops says the move could hurt their efforts to curb the city's gang violence.
Police Chief Keith McCaskill said last night he -- and he alone, without input from Mayor Sam Katz -- recently made the call to patrolling officers and to those in specialized units to step up…
I'm wondering if anyone could enlighten me on what to do about the following scenario:
I was pulled over by a YRP constable because I only had one front head light working. Upon being pulled over, I also realized my insurance card was expired by one month and my car permit was not on me at all. (It doesn't matter now but my valid insurance card was sitting at home in an envelope…
I have a wicked prosecutor in my area, he is an evil man and will lie and cheat, whatever is necessary for him to win. I got a yellow light infraction ticket and the cop was a no show. I requested the charge dismissed and it went like this:
Me: I request the charge be dismissed because the officer is not here
Prosecutor: No, we are going to adjourn the trial so the officer can attend
Accident happened at a regular intersection with turning lanes and lights. I was turning left. The light turned yellow, and the car approaching sped up to make the light. I thought he was stopping, so i made the turn. At the time of the collision the light was red.
I understand that it is my fault. I'm just wondering what my best course of action is.
alright well to get started ive developed a passion for longboarding
for those of you who dont already know a longboard is a big skateboard too heavy for tricks and stuff but boy can they ever go fast
my hobbies include going up the escarpment here in hamilton and stoney creek and riding down the roads leading to the lower part of the city. just wondering here. what would happen if i was going down…
My court date is nearing at old city hall at appeals court.
iwhats going to happen and what do i do?
do I present my certificate of offence and point out to the judge the fine was incorrect, I did not appear and am now appealing on the grounds the Justice of the peace erred and failed to quash the ticket on the basis of the certificate not being properly examined and is not complete and regular on…
.